110 Responses to “Staffordshire Moorlands”

1. Barnaby Marder

   I should have thought that the spectacle of people like van Rompuy & Wolfgang Schaeuble bossing about elected politicians in Greece as if they own the place would be calculated to help, not harm, UKIP in this country. Europe is a pretty live issue at the moment and UKIP ought to be making hay.

   February 17th, 2012 at 11:34 am
2. Tim Jones

   ‘I should have thought that the spectacle of people like van Rompuy & Wolfgang Schaeuble bossing about elected politicians in Greece as if they own the place would be calculated to help, not harm, UKIP in this country. ‘

   I would have thought precisely the opposite

   Whilst I recognise that Germany will always be disliked by a significant portion on those on the Right in this country because of the war etc – I feel the upmost sympathy for their taxpayers, having to clear up the mess that elected Greek politicians have brought onto the Greek people

   In a wider context it does pose the question what the politicians of well run countries like Germany and Netherlands thought they would gain by joining forces with the likes of Greece, Spain and to a lesser extent Italy – but that’s for another day

   February 17th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
3. H.Hemmelig

   Maybe you’re seeing things a bit too much from a liberal elite perspective Barnaby (much as I hate the phrase).

   Tim is right.

   People are furious at the laziness and bad governance of Greece eating up bailout money, part of which is ours. In that sense there is a lot of sympathy for Germany, who are having to pay more than we are, and in general share the British attitude to hard work and paying taxes. Nobody I have met could give a stuff about what is happening to Greece being “undemocratic” – they’ve brought it on themselves. If they expect to be able retire at 50, evade their taxes and laze in the sun whilst Brits and Germans work till they are 70 to pay for it all they deserve all they get.

   February 17th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
4. Barnaby Marder

   Why on earth would you think I am part of any “elite”?
   I’m a humble market researcher on a very limited income married to a working-class Indian woman (although she has been promoted ). I have never done an “elite” sort of job having run a small shop for 22 years. And I am certainly not a liberal! I am a hardline socialist. My views have never been in tune with those of the majority in this country although the party I belong to was in power for 13 years. I don’t think the elite in this country has particularly liberal views; they tend to be more One Nation Tory Foreign Office types.

   February 17th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
5. Joe

   You can be a liberal and a socialist. Going to Cambridge makes you part of the elite.

   February 17th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
6. Shaun Bennett

   ‘Elite’ isn’t just the background and class you represent but rather more importantly the values and prejudices you represent.

   Just to clarify, I’m jusing the word ‘you’ not to refer to Barnaby but rather generally to such a person as that. And I use the term ‘prejudice’ not in the negative way that most of us associate it, but as a neutral description-for we all have prejudices, they’re just different. the hypothetical ‘elite’ I would suggest are prejudiced against a lot of the views I regard as pretty mainstream, for example.

   February 17th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
7. H.Hemmelig

   Exactly. What I meant to say Barnaby was that you sound like a middle class left-wing London socialist. Most likely such people fret a lot about the human plight of the Greeks, but despite the best efforts of the BBC in my opinion the vast majority of the population see their problems as self-inflicted.

   February 17th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
8. Andy JS

   Charlotte Atkins, who has just been elected in the local by-election, is the daughter of Ronald Atkins who is currently the fourth oldest former MP at the age of 95. He was MP for Preston North, 1966-70 and 1974-79.

   February 20th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
9. Chris K

   A brief follow-on from HH’s comment above – I was out with some old friends on Saturday night and one “friend of a friend” was a guy from Greece, who moved here permanently at the age of 23.

   We were all putting the world to rights and, given that he’s quite fiercely patriotic (in an endearing way) I expected him to at least partially defend his country’s economic record and at least partly apportion the blame to the EU.

   He didn’t – he quoted the fact that, at his father’s restaurant, it was commonplace for only 30% of the daily takings to be put through the books. He also said that, certainly within the town he came from, this practice was commonplace.

   I’ve tried not to comment on Greece because I’ve never been there and really don’t know anything about their taxation or welfare system – but it was interesting to hear a native openly say “it’s our fault”.

   February 20th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
10. H.Hemmelig

    When tax evasion on that scale becomes institutionalised and “the norm”, it massively lowers the marginal cost of doing business.

    When the Germans impose a system to force your friend’s father to put the other 70% of his takings through the books, he will most likely go bust – along with hundreds of thousands of other businesses.

    I think now even the Germans are realising that Greek exit from the Euro is becoming the least worst option for them.

    February 20th, 2012 at 3:06 pm