Plymouth Sutton and Devonport
2010 Results:
Conservative: 15050 (34.29%)
Labour: 13901 (31.67%)
Liberal Democrat: 10829 (24.67%)
UKIP: 2854 (6.5%)
Green: 904 (2.06%)
Socialist Labour: 123 (0.28%)
Independent: 233 (0.53%)
Majority: 1149 (2.62%)
Notional 2005 Results:
Labour: 16214 (40.4%)
Conservative: 11909 (29.6%)
Liberal Democrat: 9029 (22.5%)
Other: 3031 (7.5%)
Majority: 4305 (10.7%)
Actual 2005 result
Conservative: 11388 (29.8%)
Labour: 15497 (40.6%)
Liberal Democrat: 8685 (22.7%)
UKIP: 2392 (6.3%)
Other: 230 (0.6%)
Majority: 4109 (10.8%)
2001 Result
Conservative: 12310 (31.5%)
Labour: 19827 (50.7%)
Liberal Democrat: 5605 (14.3%)
UKIP: 970 (2.5%)
Other: 361 (0.9%)
Majority: 7517 (19.2%)
1997 Result
Conservative: 14441 (30.3%)
Labour: 23881 (50.1%)
Liberal Democrat: 6613 (13.9%)
Referendum: 1654 (3.5%)
Other: 1063 (2.2%)
Majority: 9440 (19.8%)
Boundary changes: The only changes to the Plymouth seats are to take account of ward boundary changes. The split ward of Ham is moved entirely into the old Plymouth Devonport seat, and the split ward of Devonport is moved entirely into Plymouth Sutton. A handful of voters in Stoke ward are also moved into Plymouth Sutton. As a result of the changes Devonport is no longer in the Plymouth Devonport seat. The boundary commission orginally proposed that the new seats should be called Plymouth North and South, but there was strong support at the inquiry for the historical names to be retained in some way and the seats were renamed Plymouth Moor View and Plymouth Sutton and Devonport.
Profile: A maritime seat in Devon. The constituency is the southern part of the city of Plymouth itself, including the naval dockyards. Historically one of the most important naval bases in Britain, Devonport remains the largest naval base in Western Europe and the base of 7 nuclear submarines, HMS Ocean, HMS Albion, HMS Bulwark, 12 frigates and most of the surveying fleet. The local economy is, predictably, largely dominated by the naval base with electronics, engineering and boat building having primary roles.
The city was largely destroyed and rebuilt during World War 2, the old harbour area and fish market around the Hoe are the most important remaining few historic areas. The city centre is currently being redeveloped as part of the Plymouth 2020 project, the Drake Circus shopping centre was replaced with a new centre in 2006. Plymouth Pavilions and Millbay are also to be developed in the future.
Plymouth Sutton was held by the Conservative MP and diarist Alan Clark between 1974 and 1992, and was a comparatively reliable Conservative seat. However the seat was altered massively in the 1997 boundary changes, with the Conservative suburbs of Plympton and Plymstock being moved into Devon South West, followed by its then MP Gary Streeter. The seat is now a Labour seat, albeit one that the Conservatives will have to take to win a majority.
Current MP: Oliver Colville (Conservative) Educated at Stowe Secondard School. Contested Plymouth Sutton 2001, 2005.
Oliver Colville (Conservative) Educated at Stowe Secondard School. Contested Plymouth Sutton 2001, 2005.
Linda Gilroy(Labour) born 1949, Moffat, Scotland. Educated at Stirling High School and the University of Edinburgh. Previously deputy director of Age Concern and regional manager for the Gas Consumers` Council. Contested Devon East and Plymouth in the 1994 European Elections. Contested Cornwall South East in 1992. First elected for Plymouth Sutton in 1997. Was PPS to Nick Raynsford in the 2001-5 Parliament (more information at They work for you)
Judy Evans (Liberal Democrat) Plastic surgeon. Contested South West Devon 2005.
Tony Brown (Green)
Andrew Leigh (UKIP) Born 1964, Malta. Educated at Wellington School and Royal Naval Engineering College. Self employed chartered financial planner.Robert Hawkins (Socialist Labour) Brian Gerrish (Independent)2001 Census Demographics
Total 2001 Population: 97740
Male: 50.1%
Female: 49.9%
Under 18: 19.8%
Over 60: 18.9%
Born outside UK: 6%
White: 97.4%
Black: 0.3%
Asian: 0.5%
Mixed: 0.9%
Other: 0.9%
Christian: 68.2%
Muslim: 0.7%
Full time students: 11.9%
Graduates 16-74: 16.6%
No Qualifications 16-74: 25.4%
Owner-Occupied: 54.8%
Social Housing: 21% (Council: 13.5%, Housing Ass.: 7.5%)
Privately Rented: 20.4%
Homes without central heating and/or private bathroom: 21.3%
According to Plymouth council’s website it is -
Con 32
Lab 25
Conservative Cllr Berrow has defected to UKIP here.
I think Plymouth will go Labour this year.
Even if the Tories do about as well as in 2011, there surely has to be a swing since 2008.
If 2011 was repeated I think Labour would gain 4 seats from the Tories so the new composition would be 29/28 Lab or 29/27/1 depending on whether the defector is up for re-election this year. Either way, JJB is correct that the council would turn red.
By popular demand I’ve decided to give this thread the benefit of my expertise.
I went to the local Plymouth College of Further Education during the 1978-79 academic year, where I did an O-level Sociology course: its main building and most of its various anexes were all in the then Devonport constituency, which is bring recreated (allbeit on different boundaries).
Although too young to vote myself, the May 1979 general election battle in this constituency was a real education for any young shaver with an interest in politics: the place was saturated with posters for David Owen (Labour) and Ken Hughes (Tory). In our Sociology lessons we learnt from our lecturer (himself a member of the neighbouring Plymouth Drake Labour branch) all about what in those days was called “working class Conservatism”. This phenomenen was crucial to any Tory victory – especially in this constituency – because nationwide the middle classes accounted for only around one third of the electorate in the 1970s.
Others on this thread have referred to the depressing “mean streets” of Devonport – those rows of small privately-owned terraced houses in the semi-depressed area around the Devonport and Keyham docks. In fact, apart from Stoke Ward (the only mainly middle class area of the constituency) those “mean streets” were the bedrock of Tory support. On May 3 1979, in the Plymouth City Council elections held on the same day as the general election, Labour and the Conservatives were neck-and-neck in Keyham Ward (which elected two Labour and one Tory Councillor).
It was the inclusion of part of the large “Swilley” council estate (which lines Wolseley Road, and which was later renamed “North Prospect” because of Swilley’s association with pig food) which tipped the balance against popular local Tory incumbent Dame Joan Vickers in the February 1974 boundary change. That, together with St. Budeaux (which, although mostly owner occuiper, also had a large social housing sector) which ensured David Owen’s retention of the seat in 1979.
There are other pockets of up-market housing in the constituency (and, if memory serves me correctly, a “Devonport Public School for Girls”) so you are not looking at a total demographic empathy for Labour in this seat. However, having looked at the proposed new boundaries for the Plymouth Devonport seat (which, as I understand it, comprises Southway, Budshead, Honicknowle, St. Budeaux, Ham, Eggbuckland, Stoke and Devonport wards, I would say it’s going to be shaded in Labour’s favour in 2015.
Apologies for any spelling mistakes
Interesting post Robin Hood. Many thanks.
Labour narrowly lost out in Plymouth Drake (34 votes) in October 1974.
Labour did pretty well in Plymouth in 1979 despite large net swings to the Tories in Sutton.
It must have been a place where the Liberal vote fell more steeply than average.
@ Joe James B
Yes, Dame Janet Fookes held Drake for the Tories by just 34. I met her, by the way – an utterly charming woman who was active in the RSPCA, and against corporal and capital punishment. When she was first elected (I think to Morden?) in 1970 she was interviewed on the BBC election night programme by Robin Day and Cliff Mitchelmore. Their line of questioning was breathtakingly patronising – and was all related to her gender. I suppose it was just the way things were in those days. If aynone really wants to read the script I’ve got it somewhere and will try and post it on this thread.
Regarding Devonport: from memory, one of the reasons why the Liberals did badly in this seat in 1979 was that their candidate (or was it the local Liberal Association?) endorsed a vote for the Conservatives. Unlike in Jim Callaghan’s Cardiff South East seat – where the Liberal candidate pulled out at the last minute at the same time as endorsing the Tories – in Devonport the Liberal candidate had already been nominated before then endorsing the Conservatives as an after-thought.
There was a general air of expectation among a lot of people that the Tories would prevail in Devonport in 1979. It only needed a 3.2% swing to fall, which was lower than the national polls were indicating. I must admit, I never thought the Tories would do it because even with the seat’s military (naval) links I just had this gut feeling that its overall working class character was not conducive to a Conservative win: especially with the St Peter (Stonehouse) Ward in the equation, with its wall-to-wall council flats near the city centre and running alongside the notorious red light district of Union Street.
As it turned out, I was right – though probably for the wrong reasons. Had Dame Joan Vickers stood again for the Tories in 1979 she might have regained it. However, she had a personal vote in 1974, and her replacement with a new (and, by all accounts, uninspiring) Tory candidate – combined with the fact that Dr Owen had by then had five years with which to build up a personal vote of his own – meant you had at work what I call a ‘double incumbency effect’. (This was much in evidence in the 2001 general election, when Tory MPs with personal votes who had been swept aside in the 1997 landslide failed to stand again, enabling their Labour successors to build up a personal vote and, in nearly all cases, hold on against the Tory swing of 2001).
In Devonport in 1979, my contention is that the ‘personal vote’ factor – always important in any west country seat – was what held the pro-Tory swing down to 1.6%.
A couple of other things: did someone on this thread suggest the Tories won the 1983 and 1987 general elections because of the Alliance? Not so: the Alliance intervention certainly resulted in a bigger Tory majority in 1983 than would otherwise have occurred. However, exit polling in 1987 indicated that Alliance voters would have split mainly for the Tories had there been no SDP or Liberal candidate on the ballot. This was the end product of a deliberate strategy pursued by SDP leader David Owen in the mid-1980s and which was designed to shift the Alliance to the right in an effort to try and remove the Tory majority.
Mention has also been made on this thread about the low Tory swing in 1970 in Plymouth, giving rise to speculation that this and the Tory failure in Portsmouth West may have been due to a good Labour performance in naval seats. Not sure that’s true: On the 1970 general election night coverage, I think it was the great David Butler who commented that the Tory failure in Portsmouth West may have been due to a ‘minus’ personal vote on the part of their candidate, Brigadier Clerk.
Of course, Owen defended Plymouth Sutton for the first time as an incumbent in 1970, so there may have been a ‘double incumbency’ effect there too.
Admittedly, there was a low swing to Dame Joan Vickers in Devonport in 1970 as well, though please remember that she did hold the seat against the national trend in 1966 – where the anti-Tory swing was very low in Devonport: so the low swing back to her in 1970 needs to be seen in this context.
A further factor in Owen’s 1979 Devonport victory may have been the so-called “deferential voters” – those C2DEs who normally vote Tory out of deference to authority, but who in this instance may have stayed with Owen because of the prestige of having a foreign secretary as their MP. The Tories did try to make capital out of him being in the Cabinet, by claiming that this meant he could not properly represent the seat (as Dame Joan Vickers had done) but that tactic might have backfired. In those days, “deferential voters” were one of the two categories of ‘working class Tories’ as defined by sociologists. (The other category being “pragmatic voters”). Not sure how valid their classifications really were.
By the way, despite the “mean streets” comment I absolutely love the character of Devonport. Gritty or not, time never changes there – in fact, parts of it look like a scene from The Hobbitt.
Oh, and finally… In my O-level Sociology exam which I took in Devonport in June 1979 I was awarded a “U”. (Unclassified).
Okay then folks, here it is. Have your sick bag at the ready.
From the BBC’s 1970 Election Night Special, re-shown last year on the Parliament Channel, check out this jaw-dropping exchange in the studio…
———-
ROBIN DAY: I have with me another new MP, Miss Janet Fookes, who is a new Conservative LADY MP. Mrs Fookes… MISS Fookes I’m so sorry… and Miss Fookes tells me she’s Miss Fookes because no man has ever PLUCKED up the courage to ask … err well that’s a challenge to any bachelors in the House of Commons and perhaps one in particular, who knows? (Studio laughter). Ummm Miss… are you interested in music or sailing Miss Fookes?
JANET FOOKES: Are you starting a matrimonial agency Mr Day? I’m interested in music but not sailing.
ROBIN DAY: Miss Fookes, may I ask how old you are?
JANET FOOKES: If you must.
ROBIN DAY: I must.
JANET FOOKES: Thirty-four.
ROBIN DAY: Really, you don’t look anything like that if I may say so. (More studio laughter). Ummm Miss Fookes… what are your interests?
JANET FOOKES: Politically or personally?
ROBIN DAY: Politically and professionally.
JANET FOOKES: Um Well I am a teacher and I am very interested in education… and of course in the position of women.
ROBIN DAY: Ummm Miss Fookes what do you hope to speak on in the House of Commons?
JANET FOOKES: I’m particularly interested in the role of women in modern Britain and the law as it affects them adversely – and those are some of the points that I should like to bring up in the House.
ROBIN DAY: Back to Cliff Mitchelmore.
CLIFF MITCHELMORE: I think we ought to say incidentally that Miss Fookes is the most gorgeous redhead – if you’re seeing it in black and white it is something you are missing. Now let’s bring you up-to-date with the state of the parties…
———-
… And that, folks, was the state of women’s liberation in 1970. So much for the social progress of the 1960s, huh?
Someone on YouTube started uploading the 1970 election about a year ago but stopped after about 16 parts. I sent them a message and they agreed to send me the footage so I could upload the whole programme. Unfortunately they haven’t done so. Maybe someone else has a copy of it.
Margaret Thatcher was the token woman in the shadow cabinet in 1970, as well as the only woman appointed to Ted Heath’s cabinet after the election. I bet he was sorry he promoted her, after 1975. However there were only seven female Tory MPs elected in the 1966 general election, so there was not much choice for a leader who wanted to be modern and include a woman in his team.
@ Andy JS
I notice you put the ABC News ’88 Vote which I posted you on to You Tube. Well done!
I’ve got all twelve hours of the BBC’s 1970 general election night coverage. It reads as a truly fascinating documentary of a snapshot in time of Britain’s social history. However, a friend borrowed it about a year ago and hasn’t returned it. (Not yet, at least).
I cannot really afford further postal charges at the moment, but I’ll see what the situation is in a year or so.
Incidentally, there has been a lot of old US election night footage posted on YouTube over the last year, including all of the 1976 coverage (which was a long night). I was fourteen at the time and had to go to school the next day, but I stayed up as long as I could. When I retired Carter was extending his lead, but by the time I rose the next day Ford had substantially closed the gap and they still couldn’t call the election. (In those days, a baptist Democrat could carry the south – which always reported in first – but not these days).
Four years later everything was so different it was eerie – the polls said it would be close but the map very quickly turned blue as Reagan hammered Carter. My shocked generation were running for the cover of the nearest dining room table, as some of us were sure we were all going to be nuked!
Has the territory of St Peter and the Waterfront & Drake wards been in Plymouth Drake from 1918 to 1950
Plymouth Sutton from 1950 to 1974
Plymouth Drake (re-created) from 1974 to 1997 (obviously Drake was!!)
Plymouth Sutton (re-drawn boundary) from 1997 to 2010
Of course before 1918 the area was in the two-seat Plymouth constituency
Pretty certain it was Harry. The pre-2010 Sutton constituency bore a strong resemblance to the former Drake, as did the seat of that name between 1950 and 1974. The seat of that name which existed from 1974 to 1997 however was a dreadful misnomer, since it didn’t actually include most of Sutton itself!
‘Four years later everything was so different it was eerie – the polls said it would be close but the map very quickly turned blue as Reagan hammered Carter’
I thought in America the Democrats were Blue and the Republicans Red
“I thought in America the Democrats were Blue and the Republicans Red”
Not in the old days. I think they swopped the colours around sometime in the past 10-20 years.
Something about a predecessor of this seat which I wrote for its Wikipedia entry:
The first Drake constituency was created for the 1918 general election, and abolished for the 1950 general election. For most of this time it was held by the Conservative Party. It was a Labour gain in the Attlee landslide of 1945, although it had been held by Labour once before, in the 1929-31 Parliament.
The second incarnation of the constituency was created for the February 1974 general election. For the whole of its 23-year existence it was represented by just one MP, Dame Janet Fookes of the Conservative Party. It was always a marginal seat during this period, but Dame Janet managed to survive many strong challenges at each general election she fought, including winning with a majority of just 34 in October 1974 – making Drake the most marginal Conservative seat at that election. She served as a Deputy Speaker of the House to Betty Boothroyd from 1992 until she retired from the Commons in 1997.
The constituency was abolished for the 1997 general election, with its wards being transferred to the redrawn constituency of Plymouth Sutton, which was gained by the Labour Party in the Blair landslide of that year. Most of the territory of Drake is now covered by the constituency of Plymouth Sutton and Devonport.
If Owen had stood here in 1992, would he have done well?
Going back to the discussion about women MP’s, I heard once the only 20 women MP’s were elected at the 1979 election. Is that correct?
I’ve tried thinking about who they were. Off the top of my head the only ones I can think of are the then Hon Members for;
Finchley
Eaton and Slough
Plymouth Drake
Gloucester
Wolverhampton North East
West Bromwich West
Birmingham Edgebaston
Belper
Wallasey
Bolton West
Can anyone else think of any more.
Judith Hart in Lanark who remained the only lady in Scotland following the retirement of the Conservative lady in Renfrewshire East, and the the defeat of Winnie Ewing and Margaret Bain (later Ewing) in Moray & Nairn and Dunbartonshire East.
Elaine Kellett-Bowman? Peggy Fenner? Jo Richardson?
Jo Richardson (Lab Barking)
Shirley Summerskill (Lab Halifax)
Judith Hart (Lab Lanark)
Elaine Kellet-Bowman (Con Lancaster)
Joan Maynard (Sheffield Brightside)
Peggy Fenner (Con Rochester & Chatham)
Oona MacDonald (Lab Thurrock)
How did we forget Gwyneth Dunwoody?
It seems there was a Sheila Wright in Birminghma Handsworth who I have never heard of. That only leaves one. Are you sure there were 20?
Ann Taylor in Bolton West, Sheila Wright in Birminghamh.andsworth andGwyneth Dunwoody in Crewe.
There was virtually no increase in the number of women MPs between 1945 and 1983 inclusive. The first significant increase came in 1987.
I’ve just been through the list on Wikipedia and I came up with 19 women MPs in 1979.
Still alive/living are the following (13):
Margaret Thatcher, Sheila Faith, Jill Knight, Sheila Wright, Ann Taylor, Sally Oppenheim, Shirley Summerskill, Elaine Kellett-Bowman, Janet Fookes, Penny Fenner, Oonagh McDonald, Lynda Chalker, Betty Boothroyd.
The other 6 passed away on the following dates:
Judith Hart (8th December 1991)
Jo Richardson (1st February 1994)
Joan Lester (27th March 1998)
Joan Maynard (27th March 1998)
Renee Short (18th January 2003)
Gwyneth Dunwoody (17th April 2008)
Sheila Wright was quite a left-wing lady who succeeded the rather eccentric Tribunite John Lee (who had represented a Reading seat from 1966 to 1970 & Handsworth from 1974, as the inaugural Labour member for that seat) at that election. She however decided not to contest the 1983 election for family reasons, and the constituency was abolished anyway. Much of the seat became part of Birmingham Perry Barr, which was of course contested & won by Jeff Rooker – his defeated Conservative opponent being none other than Michael Portillo. I say she “was” a left-wing lady – in fact she is still alive, aged 87. I am pretty sure that she contested Handsworth before John Lee won it, being beaten by, I think, both Sir Edward Boyle & Sydney Chapman who succeeded him.
Judith Hart lived in Kew, near where I live now, and her husband Tony was for many years President (as we called it in those year) of the Richmond CLP, and in the early 70s leader of the quite large Labour group on the council. Judith sometimes was seen in these parts & I remember going canvassing with both her & Tony in Mitcham & Morden in 1982. We all went to a pub which at the time was apparently the local NF’s watering (shit)hole, but we didn’t realise until we’d gone in. Tony was still able to play a bit of a part in the 1997 general election doing telephone canvassing but was very poorly the next year, though he was delighted that his old ward Mortlake was won by Labour again after 24 years. Opposite where the Harts lived, some years later at the end of his life, lived Lord Hugh Jenkins, former Labour MP for Putney, and Lord Clive Soley now has a London place in Kew – in fact I bumped into him on Tuesday morning & we had a pleasant brief chat. The Harts were apparently a quarrelsome couple.
Womwn didn’t do well in1979 except for the top job. Shirley williams, maureen c’, barbara castle, margaret bain, margaret jackson, winnie ewing, sheila wright and others all leaving the Commons