Greenwich and Woolwich
2010 Results:
Conservative: 10109 (24.54%)
Labour: 20262 (49.19%)
Liberal Democrat: 7498 (18.2%)
BNP: 1151 (2.79%)
Green: 1054 (2.56%)
English Democrat: 339 (0.82%)
Christian: 443 (1.08%)
TUSC: 267 (0.65%)
Independent: 65 (0.16%)
Majority: 10153 (24.65%)
Notional 2005 Results:
Labour: 18152 (52.6%)
Liberal Democrat: 6884 (20%)
Conservative: 6232 (18.1%)
Other: 3070 (8.9%)
Majority: 11268 (32.7%)
Actual 2005 result
Conservative: 7142 (20.1%)
Labour: 17572 (49.2%)
Liberal Democrat: 7381 (20.7%)
English Democrat: 1216 (3.4%)
Green: 1579 (4.4%)
UKIP: 709 (2%)
Independent: 61 (0.2%)
Majority: 10146 (28.5%)
2001 Result
Conservative: 6258 (19.2%)
Labour: 19691 (60.5%)
Liberal Democrat: 5082 (15.6%)
UKIP: 672 (2.1%)
Other: 833 (2.6%)
Majority: 13433 (41.3%)
1997 Result
Conservative: 7502 (18.6%)
Labour: 25630 (63.4%)
Liberal Democrat: 5049 (12.5%)
Referendum: 1670 (4.1%)
Other: 552 (1.4%)
Majority: 18128 (44.9%)
Boundary changes: Loses part of Eltham West, part of Middle Park and Sutcliffe, most of Kidbrooke with Hornfair and a tiny part of Shooters Hill wards to Eltham constituency. Gains most of Glyndon (currently divided three ways between Erith and Thamesmead, Greenwich and Woolwich and Eltham) and part of Woolwich Common ward from Eltham
Profile: Greenwich and Woolwich constituency covers Greenwich itself, Charlton, parts of Blackheath and Woolwich. There are some pockets of affluence here, particularly the area around Blackheath Standard (to the east of Blackheath itself, which lies mostly in Lewisham), and large green spaces like Greenwich and Woolwich Commons, but the genteel tourist part of Greenwich with the Royal Observatory, Naval College and the remains of the Cutty Sark, severely damaged by fire in 2007, are not characteristic of the seat as a whole. This is mostly an inner city working class seat, an area of tower blocks and social housing, with a third of the properties council owned, and with a significant ethnic minority population.
The riverside is largely industrial and in the north of the seat on the Greenwich peninsula is the ill-fated Millenium Dome, now rechristened the O2 in hope of a more successful future. The area around the Dome is being redeveloped as the Greenwich Millennium Village. The seat also includes both the Blackwall tunnel and the Thames Flood Barrier.
Despite being a safe Labour seat now, the predecessor seats to Greenwich and Woolwich were once both held by the SDP – Woolwich MP John Cartwright had defected from Labour in 1981 and was one of the few to hold his seat (then Woolwich East) at the 1983 election. Greenwich was won by Rosie Barnes in a 1987 by-election. Both MPs followed David Owen into the doomed continuing SDP after the merger with the Liberals, and both lost their seats to Labour in 1992.
Current MP: Nick Raynsford(Labour) born 1945, Northampton. Educated at Repton and Cambridge university. MP for Fulham from 1986-1987 after winning the 1986 by-election. First elected as MP for Greenwich 1992. Opposition spokesman for London from 1993-1997 and a minister for local government between 1997-2005 (as a minister of state after 1999) in all the various departments the responsibility passed through during that time (more information at They work for you)
Spencer Drury (Conservative) Economics teacher. Greenwich councillor since 2002, leader of the Conservative group on Greenwich council. Contested Eltham 2005.Nick Raynsford(Labour) born 1945, Northampton. Educated at Repton and Cambridge university. MP for Fulham from 1986-1987 after winning the 1986 by-election. First elected as MP for Greenwich 1992. Opposition spokesman for London from 1993-1997 and a minister for local government between 1997-2005 (as a minister of state after 1999) in all the various departments the responsibility passed through during that time (more information at They work for you)
Joseph Lee (Liberal Democrat) 
Andy Hewett (Green) Works in e-commerce
Lawrence Rustem (BNP)Topo Wresniwiro (English Democrat) Edward Adeleye (Christian Party) 
Onay Kasab (TUSC) Unison branch secretary. Contested London in 2009 European elections for No2EU.Tammy Alingham (Independent)2001 Census Demographics
Total 2001 Population: 87585
Male: 47.9%
Female: 52.1%
Under 18: 24.2%
Over 60: 14.4%
Born outside UK: 23.2%
White: 70.4%
Black: 14.6%
Asian: 8.5%
Mixed: 3.4%
Other: 3.1%
Christian: 56.6%
Hindu: 2.4%
Muslim: 5.5%
Sikh: 2.7%
Full time students: 7.2%
Graduates 16-74: 30.9%
No Qualifications 16-74: 26.8%
Owner-Occupied: 37.6%
Social Housing: 46.9% (Council: 34.7%, Housing Ass.: 12.1%)
Privately Rented: 12.5%
Homes without central heating and/or private bathroom: 8.5%
Christian – Pete Whitehead has commented on the Eltham thread that the notional Labour majority may not have been accurate, as the Conservatives did OK in this seat (and yes, poorly in Eltham). I think Clive Efford is an effective constituency MP as well, nd (I believe) unscathed by the expenses scandal
I wonder if Rosie Barnes and John Cartwright have voted since 1992, and if so, who for? They were dead against joining the LibDems when they were in Parliament.
This video shows Rosie Barnes beating Deirdre Wood in the 1987 general election;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaU0WH_qCpg
‘I wonder if Rosie Barnes and John Cartwright have voted since 1992, and if so, who for?’
New Labour in 1997 I would have thought and then Lib Dems or Greens after the Iraq war
I can’t seem them firmly backing the Tories like their old boss
I don’t know if Owen has actually backed the Tories -has he?
I’ve just posted a link to a YouTube video of Rosie Barnes beating Deirdre Wood in June 1987.
It would have been funny if Barnes and Cartwright had held on to their seats in 1992 – then they might have had to fight for the redrawn constituency in 1997.
Owen endorsed the Tories to keep out Labour in 1992 but advised voting Lib Dem where they could win. Since then, he flirted with Blair and Brown from time to time but never endorsed either. He was involved in a website in the 2010 General Election supporting the concept of a hung parliament.
Although there was a lot of animosity between Owen and senior Lib Dem figures at the time, the irony is that politically Owen (while independent minded and centre-right leaning) has basically been fairly mainstream Lib Dem since 1990 and would probably be in his element now had he stayed.
It was odd the way in which Greenwich and Woolwich ended up as two SDP seats next to each other. John Cartwright did unusally well in 1983 to hold his seat as an SDP candidate while most of his colleagues were being annihilated. I don’t really know how he managed that.
David Dimbleby described the two seats as the “SDP Riveria” in the 1987 election programme, due to their proximity with the Thames.
My impression was that John Cartwright was a particularly assiduous local MP.
It’s true that Woolwich is one of the last places in the country one would have expected the SDP’s programme to have been popular on its own terms.
Remember that they almost won in Erith & Crayford next door – the difference being that the Tories were in contention there which thwarted them (as in other WWC outer London seats such as Hayes & Harlington) whereas in Woolwich they weren’t, so they were in a stronger position to benefit from Labour disarray.
With regard to which of Rosie Barnes or John Cartwright would have fought this seat in the event of them both being incumbents in 1997, I addressed this same point back in December. The answer is that this is an enlarged Greenwich seat rather than a merger of the two seats and it seems clear that Rosie Barnes would have had an undisputed claim to the seat (just as Nick Raynesford did as the actual sitting MP for Greenwih then). Erith & Thamesmead took not only the largest part of the old Woolwich seat but also that part which was most favourable to the SDP (the least favourable part was that which was added to this seat), so I think John Cartwright would have had no problem contesting that seat (winning it may have been more problematic, but no more so than winning here in 1997)
I liked the continuing SDP of 1987-1990 because it gave the Lib Dems a horrible time.
A pity they didn’t keep it going, because (ironically) they were helping us return to two party politics,
and I hope we are now witnessing a period like that coming back.
I was slightly surprised by how well Rosie Barnes and John Cartwright did in 1992.
Of course, as mentioned earlier, Greenwich might have been a Con gain in 1987 had there been no by-election. The Tories, although they came third, still made a big improvement on their performance in the by-election.
‘Although there was a lot of animosity between Owen and senior Lib Dem figures at the time, the irony is that politically Owen (while independent minded and centre-right leaning) has basically been fairly mainstream Lib Dem since 1990 and would probably be in his element now had he stayed.’
His views on Europe are quite different from most Lib Dems – being moderately pro-European but staunchly against the single currency – which to be fair is much more in line with the public than the rest of his generally federalist-supporting party
Otherwise though I think he’d fit in well with the current coalition government, although had Major offered him the much coveted foreign secretary role (which he himself wanted to) I think he would have happily joined the Tories – just as he endorsed them in 1992
For some reason it seems difficult to imagine a Tory gain in Greenwich in 1987 but you never know what might have happened.
Similarly though it seems difficult to imagine Deirdre Wood winning, given the attitude of Londoners towards the loony left.
Rosie Barnes was interviewed by the BBC after retaining her seat (YouTube, Election 1987, Part 33) and said in as many words that the increase of the Tory vote between February and June 1987 had taken her by surprise.
Although I was well aware of it,
it’s easy to forget that this by-election was actually an en bloc switch of Tory votes to the SDP,
not all that many more from Labour,
although it was terrible for them to lose a seat as the main opposition party, close to an election.
The 1987 election result may have looked predictable afterwards, with the economic upturn becoming more apparent in 1986, but with the uncertain swings between the three parties, I bet the Tories were actually quite worried by this by-election at the time, thinking it could mean an Alliance surge hitting them.
“Similarly though it seems difficult to imagine Deirdre Wood winning, given the attitude of Londoners towards the loony left.”
Had Deirdre Wood been selected to fight the seat in place of Guy Barnett though? He was only 58 when he died and I presume he would not have retired before the election, but maybe he was deselected. If that was the case I could see Deirdre Wood having some trouble holding the seat in the circumstances. If Guy Barnett had been lived and defended his seat in 1987 however I would guess it would have been like other seats where the Tories came tantalisingly close in the 80s such as Tooting and Hammersmith, as there were not the factors present which contributed to Tory gains in either Battersea or Walthamstow
Guy Barnett wasn’t deselected & hadn’t as I recall announced his retirement either.
There was a poll out around December 1986 showing Labour with 60% of the vote in Greenwich, but it changed once the thing got underway.
I’m also sure he hadn’t been deselected, before his death.
In 1987 there were swings to Labour in Eltham and Deptford but swings to the Conservatives in Lewisham E, Bow & Poplar and very strongly Newham S.
Anyone like to suggest which way Greenwich would have gone if Guy Barnett had died a few months later?
I wonder also what would have been the result next door in Lewisham Deptford, if John Silkin had died a few months earlier
Or if Tachell had stood in the Peckham byelection instead of Harman.
Maybe John Redwood would have won
I hadn’t realised that John Silkin had died just before the 1987 election, (on 26th April). Was he intending to stand again?
What were the wards of the former separate constituencies of Greenwich and Woolwich from 1983 to 1997?
Greenwich:
Blackheath, Charlton, Ferrier, Hornfair, Kidbrooke, Rectory Field, St. Alfege, Trafalgar, Vanbrugh and West
Woolwich:
Abbey Wood, Arsenal, Burrage, Eynsham, Glyndon, Lakedale, Plumstead Common, St. Mary’s, St. Nicholas, Shrewsbury, Slade, Thamesmead Moorings and Woolwich Common
A surprisingly good performance for the Tories here despite only having 2 councillors in the seat (both in Blackheath Westcombe). I’m guessing that they also have a good vote in central Greenwich and possibly in some of the new builds that have begun to appear in Woolwich. Even so, there is no danger of Labour losing this seat even when Nick Raynsford steps down and a lot more demographic change needs to occur before the Tories stand any chance of winning here.
The notional figures suggest that there was a regulation national swing to the Conservatives.
Just seen Andy’s question from September. I think he had intended to retire – I don’t recall a last-minute selection when he died, I think Joan Ruddock was already in place.
Lord (Richard) Marsh MP 1959-71,and former Chairman of British Rail passed away on the 29 July.
“Just seen Andy’s question from September. I think he had intended to retire – I don’t recall a last-minute selection when he died, I think Joan Ruddock was already in place.”
I’ve seen an old Tribune article ddate 24 October 1986 and they mentioned that the selection was expected for January 1987. Names mentioned were: “The former chair of CND, Joan Ruddock, appears to be one of the stronger contenders, but , others who have expressed an interest include the former GLC deputy leader, John McDonnell, the ILEA. leader, Frances Morrell, a surcharged former Lambeth Councillor Imelda Inyang, and the former GLC women’s committee chair, Valeria Wise. Feeling that the seat needs local MP could benefit Lewisham councillor Clifton Graham”.
This thought has a certain relevance at the moment:
“I’m always a little fascinated the way many of the traditional Labour strongholds in south and east London have such a high level of both council/social housing and graduates.
One of the joys of living in London I dare say!
In the rest of the country one of the advantages of being educated and/or well paid is so that you can live as far as possible away from the lower orders as you can.”
Extreme disparities in close proximity do not encourage stable communities.
In London, the rich and poor have lived in relatively close proximity for hundreds of years.
And there has often been trouble.
Compare that with Yorkshire where the rich/poor proximity issue doesn’t arise.
The only riots I can remember occuring in Yorkshire are the Bradford 2001 riots and the issue there was also involved extreme disparity in adjacent areas but on a racial not a wealth basis.
The more cohesive communities are the less trouble there is likely to be.
I think there’s a difference to the underlying causes to the problems in London to the copycat events in Manchester and Liverpool which were simply scum realising that they could get away with theft due to plod weakness.
Yes I agree with that.
And the Manchester/Liverpool riots did not have the sinister racial undertones unlike London and Birmingham.
I do think Richard that your hatred of London and London people colours your politics very significantly. Nothing wrong with that and we are all entitled to our opinion.
It is interesting that I grew up 40 miles from where you live in Doncaster so we come from roughly the same area and I presume are a similar age – yet I loved London when my uncle first took me there in 1984 aged 8, and from then on I always knew I would like to live there.
I went to university in London in 1995, and except for 4 years living abroad I have lived in London ever since. There have been many changes in London since 1984 and even since 1995, some good some bad, but I still love the city and though I also love my home town in Nottinghamshire and visit regularly, there is nowhere else in the UK I would rather live at this stage in my life.
HH
I think you exaggerate, I have never said I hate London or its people and have always enjoyed my visits there – something I’ve done rarely in the last few years as all my old uni friends who lived there have now moved out.
What I do think is happening though is that the interests of London and those of the rest of the country are separating and that the interests of London are given far too much prominence.
This isn’t helped by the increasing emergence of a political class which is very Londoncentric and have the background of private school / posh comp, Oxford PPE, SpAd / policy wonk, a year or two in the City or media and then given a safe seat.
As to the delights of living in London its okay if you’re extremely rich or a young trendie who wants excitement and doesn’t mind getting heavily into debt for it.
But for everyone else you’ll get a much higher living standard and quality of life almost anywhere else.
“This isn’t helped by the increasing emergence of a political class which is very Londoncentric”
Considering that parliament is in London I would expect many MPs to have major links with London. It is worth noting that London is given greater prominence as it is where the most money is made which goes on to benefit the whole nation. Londons problems are the countrys problems.
“the background of private school / posh comp, Oxford PPE, SpAd / policy wonk, a year or two in the City or media and then given a safe seat.”
This is something that I think all parties are trying to address and credit where credits due I thought all the big three parties had a diverse mixture of candidates in 2010. There is nothing wrong with Oxbridge grads or HQ worker candidates but more ‘everyday’ candidates are needed as well.
Census results, white British, 2001 / 2011:
Blackheath Westcombe: 76.0% / 69.6%
Charlton: 66.9% / 52.4%
Glyndon: 56.3% / 35.8%
Greenwich West: 63.9% / 50.9%
Peninsula: 67.4% / 53.5%
Woolwich Common: 52.7% / 34.4%
Woolwich Riverside: 58.1% / 39.3%
TOTAL: 62.4% / 46.6%
White overall, Greenwich & Woolwich:
2001: 70.4%
2011: 58.6%
There were absolute increases in the white British population in Greenwich West, Peninsula and Woolwich Riverside but they were counterbalanced by large increases in the overall population. In Woolwich Riverside for example the total population increased from 12,767 to 19,120.