This morning’s Times has a new YouGov poll of Conservative party members, asking mainly about Brexit and the party leadership.

Party members are a generally loyal bunch, so as you’d expect all the main players are seen as doing well, though Michael Fallon and David Davis stand out as having the best job approval. While everyone has very positive ratings overall, there are some contrasts between members who voted remain and leave, most obviously in the case of Boris Johnson. 83% of Tory members who voted Leave think Boris is doing well as Foreign Secretary, only 42% of Tory remainers think he is.

Despite the strongly positive ratings for Davis, there are doubts over the Brexit negotiations. 61% of Tory members think the government are doing well, 33% badly. Asked about what the government’s approach should be, 59% agree with Theresa May’s aim of leaving the single market and customs union and negotiating a new deal, 19% would rather just leave immediately with no deal, 12% would rather Britain did remain a member of the single market and customs union, 9% would rather Britain remain a full EU member.

In terms of the details of Brexit Theresa May appears to have some degree of flexibility with her members so long as Britain makes a clean break. 58% of Tory members would think a transition deal was fine (even if it includes payment and following EU rules), 61% think a one-off payment to settle Britain’s financial liabilities is fine too. Trickier would be any ongoing financial payment in return for market access (70% of Tory members would see this as unacceptable) or Britain remaining in the single market (69% would see it as unacceptable).

Looking to May’s future, there is very little appetite for her immediate removal (only 13% of her party members would like her to go now or in the next year), but equally there is relatively little support for her still being around come the next election (only 29%). Most Tory party members would like her to leave after Brexit (38%) or just before the next election (13%).

Who would be a likely successor is unclear. Boris Johnson leads the field as first choice, but only of 23% of members. Second is Ruth Davidson on 19%, third is Jacob Rees-Mogg, suggesting there are actually real party members who think he’d make a good leader, rather than just journos struggling to fill column inches in silly season. David Davis has now dropped to fourth place on 11%, Amber Rudd is on just 6%.

Asked what is most important to them in a leader the vast majority of party members say ability to win an election or competence as Prime Minister, rather than whether they agree with them politically. Their actual preferences paint a different picture though, with consistent differences between Remain and Leave Tories. Tory members who voted Leave say their first choices are Johnson (29%), Rees-Mogg (23%), Davidson (14%), Davis (13%). Tory members who voted Remain say their first choices are Davidson (29%), Rudd (14%), Hammond (11%), Johnson (10%).

YouGov also asked about various potential candidates individually. 58% think Davidson would make a good leader, 56% Johnson, 55% Davis, 42% Rudd, 32% Hammond, 31% Fox, Javid 29%. While the poll included some less high profile figures who have been talked of as potential leaders of the future, most party members didn’t really have an impression of them – 49% said they didn’t know enough about Dominic Raab to have an opinion, 65% said the same about Tom Tugendhat. Notably, of all those asked about Ruth Davidson was the only candidate that both Remain voting Tories and Leave voting Tories thought would make a good leader. It would be an extremely positive sign for a Davidson leadership campaign… if, of course, she had any interest in moving down to Westminster or seeking the job.

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549 Responses to “YouGov poll of Tory party members”

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  1. @ COLIN – as you point out there is no point trying to go toe-toe with McDonnell on spending but the electorate are sick of austerity. It’s a dilemma but in the near term a modest amount of financial slippage is far better than LAB.

    Voters want a positive story offering hope. May talks of renewing the social contract and suggests tiny tweaks to uni loans. It’s complete denial of the political problem. There is no point having the best approach if the party with the wrong approach are in power.

    A lot of this can be traced back to putting a reluctant Remainer in as PM and Chancellor – with the benefit of hindsight of course! The positive future of Brexit potential is getting zero air time, the public still believe Project Fear and remember the daft bus nonsense.

    I’m a passionate believer in reducing our debt but there is a time and a place for doing that. Now is certainly not the time. We have the ‘excuse’ of Brexit, Industry4.0, low productivity, etc, etc to make a bold, imaginative and above all hopeful future for UK. If it means a few more years before we balance the budget surely that is better than the alternative – handing McDonnell the keys to #11 in mid-2019 free of ECJ jurisdiction.

  2. Colin

    “Austerity” may well be meaningless – but has in fact been the Tories sole policy and reason since 2010 – abandoning it is suicide – almost as bad as clinging to it.

    They are a party whose time has run out.

  3. john pilgrim

    You got me quite excite with the stuff about Cherry of the Remove and I was wondering why she got that nickname?

    “TURK
    Nickp
    Your vision of vast armies of young red visionaries waiting in the traps to spring forward to spread the sacred word of the great leader Corbyn did make me laugh well done.”

    You must have an odd sense of humour since that is pretty much what has just happened in the recent election and is only likely to increase in intensity at the next.

    Still, if it gets you chortling by all means chortle away.

  4. @CMJ – Catalan Ref

    It’s difficult to imagine a more politically inept response from the Spanish Government.

    The Ghost of Franco lives on.

  5. Good voter segmentation piece from Natcen. They make clear the Brexit division has muddied the usual left-right polarity.

    The ‘social liberal’ and ‘social conservative’ distinction shows how wrong May is to keep the immigration target. She went after UKIP’s 12.6% 2015 vote without understanding the consequences. It’s crazy in many ways as she failed dismally to meet the target as H.Sec but people believe her now she is PM?

    Only a new leader can scrap that promise and remove the xenophobic stigma and baggage that comes with it. From BoJo’s Telegraph Opus:

    “The door will not be slammed on migrants”

    “We will have an immigration [system] that suits the UK, not slamming the door – but welcoming the talent we need, from the EU and around the world. Of course we will make sure that business gets the skills it needs, but business will no longer be able to use immigration as an excuse not to invest in the young people of this country.”

    If I didn’t tell you that was BoJo you’d have thought it was Corbyn!

    http://natcen.ac.uk/news-media/press-releases/2017/october/how-brexit-has-shaped-our-politics/

  6. @S Thomas – OK, but that isn’t what she has asked for. We’ll see what transpires.

    In the meantime, it’s no wonder that many in her party don’t seem to believe her – an anagram of ‘Theresa May’ is ‘A Heresy Mat’.

    They’re walking all over her!

  7. Well, the difference between Orbán and the Western politicians now is only that Orbán can say it, as his voting base appreciates it (he even approved criminal acts and breach of the Basic Law (he abolished he Constitution) as it suits him.

    What happened was very simple. A B&B owner, who does charity anyway) offered to host two migrant families (all approved as refugees by the Hungarian authorities) for a couple of days of vacation in a village in Tolna county. There was a village meeting where two Fidesz (government party) officials encouraged the people against it. It was said that these people would occupy the vullage, they would rape the women, the school is close to the B&B and the migrants would kidnap them. The leader of the village resigned. The owner of the hostel was threatened, and his van was attacked (tyres punctured). Orbán said that it was good to see that people stood up against the migrants, Soros, and Brussels. A few month ago the same happened in a village near Keszthely.

    Note: about 3 million Hungarians have access only to state controlled media (in which the worst kind of racism, homophobic comments, anti-Semitism is daily staple), and regional newspapers, all controlled by the mayor of Orbán’s birthplace who, from a boiler repairman became the richest man in the country, in which this week there was one article every day that in Western Europe people don’t dare to leave their home.

    It is in a country where the population is falling, 40% are at poverty level, and the threat is not the hijab, but the rags (as national custom).

  8. Paul Croft

    “Check out the Loure from Bach’s E major violin partita. Rachel Podger’s playing of this is absolutely beautiful in my opinion.”

    I just did!! Absolutely stunning playing, how have I missed such a talent. Further investigation of Podger and the others underway, I can almost hear my wife muttering when the CD’s start to arrive. I’ve run out of storage space for CD’s and books, hundreds of the former and thousands of the latter.

    John PILGRIM

    “It was interesting to hear Heseltine on Sunday Politics”

    It’s never interesting listening to Heseltine on Europe. I have assumed he is a secret agent of the EU for at least 25 years. The man’s obsessed in the same way as Somerjohn. Come on Somerjohn; admit you’re actually Heseltine in a Left of Centre disguise. :-)

    CATMANJEFF

    “Things not going well in Catalonia.”

    How right you are.

    OLDNAT

    “Perhaps the best thing we’ve seen today; a polling place where Yes & No voters are sitting together defending their polling place. Singing.”

    I hadn’t seen that but I would agree with your sentiments.

    Colin

    Trouble stacking up in the EU, Poland and Hungary defying the rest, Catalonia, Macrons low standing so soon after his election, Merkel electoral problems, the UK leaving etc etc. You might be interested in my last comment to Alec below.

    Alec

    I have to say that I am much happier about the EU negotiations, now that I have accepted that no deal is the best outcome for the UK, since as you know I think that the most likely outcome. Many thanks for helping me to come to that conclusion.

    You might also be interested to hear that I have come off the fence at last and joined the Conservative Party, despite the fact that the current PM is a letting me down on Brexit. I feel it’s time that people like me got more involved so that we get what we want from our politicians. Only taken me 59 years to make up my mind to do that. :-)

    Nick P

    “They are a party whose time has run out.”

    I remember you saying that in 2015 Nick. Hopefully we will get the same outcome as then at the next election. :-)

  9. sea change

    “@Paul Croft “If you think that the average voter is aware of a single item of that then you are being very unrealistic.
    All most people get is soundbites and the vaguest of generalisations. Corbyn’s real feelings on the EU are of no interest at all.”

    Not sure what that has to do with the argument. I am simply refuting Mike Pearce’s statement that Corbyn is ambivalent to Brexit, because that is clearly, as demonstrated by his consistent actions for over 40 years, not the case.”

    And I was – simply – pointing out that your long list has very little relevance for most voters. That’s all.

    Hope that clears it up for you.

  10. Howard

    Very pleased that you like her playing. She also comes over in her interviews and her teaching as a really delightful person I feel.

  11. Other H

    “I remember you saying that in 2015 Nick. Hopefully we will get the same outcome as then at the next election. :-)”

    You correctly called that one – are you calling the next one for blue too?

  12. My vote – which is almost worthless in FPTP anyway – would never be for the Tories.

    However, placards referring to “Tory scum” disgust me and make me feel very uncomfortable about both the supporters the Labour Party is attracting, and the level of abuse that seems to be regarded as acceptable.

    Worse than that, I think it is largely self-defeating. The people who hold up such placards allow themselves to just become part of a self-indulgent bubble, rather than reaching out to others

  13. ToH

    As long as there is something to steal from the EU funds, the Hungarian government won’t leave the EU. The Polish one is quite fearful of its own citizens, and at a big time, so they will also step back from the brink. The V4 doesn’t exist anymore.

    There’s no EU problem in Hungary (it’s a crisis of humanity, including the head of the Hungarian Catholic Church). Orbán will have 70% of the seats in Parliament in the next spring elections (if you think FPTP is biased, have a look at the Hungarian election system), and keeps the country in the EU, and the EU will be happy with him

  14. Add Green and Greening to the list of people that need to be replaced. I used to like Greening but pilots and pittance puts her in the GE denial camp.

    Javid seems to get it, future chancellor? Let’s see some action though fella, lot of talk up to now and people want to see some delivery.

    Ruth – she is never going to be FM in ‘left’ Scotland so we really need her as MP not MSP. Maybe not PM material just yet but major cabinet role please.

  15. Problem for the blues is they are no longer even pretending to be a Centre party – it’s austerity & brexit and nothing else.

  16. @Alec

    Agree absolutely about how good it is to see young people registering to vote for the first time, going to meetings and taking part. And I am not referring just to students responding to Labour’s promise to abolish tuition fees.

    I’m talking about those in their twenties who are trying to plan a future for themselves. Full credit to Corbyn for motivating them.

    Hopefully they will realise that voting can make a difference.

  17. LASZLO

    “Orbán will have 70% of the seats in Parliament in the next spring elections (if you think FPTP is biased, have a look at the Hungarian election system), and keeps the country in the EU, and the EU will be happy with him”

    Your probably correct, one of many reasons for leaving the EU IMO.

  18. @Paul Croft

    I agree.

    Most arguments in politics are not black/white, right/wrong, but a matter of subjective perspective.

    The folk who wield those banners need to grow up.

    BTW, just watching footage of police in Catalonia hitting peaceful protestors with batons. The protesters clearly had their arms raised in a passive gesture before the assault started.

    So sad.

  19. Paul Croft

    I have been a little remiss in not exploring early music as much as perhaps I should have. So thanks again for all three names.

  20. @Nick P, TOH

    TOH, being almost the only person on this site to forecast a Tory majority in 2015, enhanced his reputation as a wily old sage. However this reputation has been a bit battered since; what with his predictions for the Brexit referendum and the last GE.

    Oh well TOH, can’t win them all :-)

  21. TREVOR WARNE

    @” If it means a few more years before we balance the budget surely that is better than the alternative –”

    I agree -as I said in another post earlier today.

    I just don’t think you need to change Chancellor-PH knows well enough what we have to do I think.

    And changing Chancellor can cause financial problems too. It would be a very big-and imo-unneccessary thing to do.

  22. TOH

    Thanks-an “activist” eh ?

    Go get ’em :-)

  23. TOH,

    “Your probably correct, one of many reasons for leaving the EU IMO.”

    What….. because the EU neither wants to or has the legal power to impose a different voting system on a Sovereign Nation State against the wishes of the Democratically elected Government?????

    Since when was “If only the EU could change the UK FPTP system for a PR one over the head of Westminster” one of the things that would made you vote remain.

    You seem unable not to use anything you can think of as a reason not to leave the EU….even if it makes you look like a silly old fool!

    Peter.

  24. COLIN
    “I was very surprised to see you pray in aid Hungary !”
    The interesting aspect of the article on Orban’s measures is the comments, which are uniformly favourable to measures which would detain migrants until they are given legality.
    That basis of support and Orban’s own arguments need to be read alongside LASZLO’s commentary, which opposes these and related measures as fascist; probably rightly so.
    The plea of the Hungarian and Austrian government representatives at the April 2016 HOC Migrant Enquiry (chaired, I thought incomprehendingly, by Ketih Vaz, was to create means of registration and identification of migrants in areas of transit from the ME and Sub-Saharan Africa, on the grounds that you cannot offer controlled and effective migration in EU countries if you cannot identify and maintain administrative contact with or support them.
    Rational so far, and not infringing any human rights. Where a position unacceptable (to EU or international human rights) occurs is in the assertion that Hungary or other countries will not permit the cultural clash which they consider is inevitable if they attempt to allow the acceptance of Muslim immigrants. That they do so on the basis of several centuries of the Ottoman empire and of more recent abuse and conflict,which possibly does not allow non-Hungarians the right to say that their policies are wrong or fascist.
    If,however, a policy of “detention” was one of providing full human and working rights to legitimised economic migrants in areas of sheltered and protected reception and preparation for legitimate migration in countries of the Deauville Agreement (all the N.African and N.East States), in a belt across the Mediterranean seabord, with the support of the whole EU and of the UK if out of the EU, and if that offeree the transit countries a long-term programme of investment to achieve economic parity with the EU, the policy might appear humane and rational.

    LASZLO. I’ve tried to follow Soros’ arguments and, given his track record, wonder if he just fails to see this wider picture?

  25. @COLIN

    You were arguing that because GO could not manage to cut as deeply as he would have like it meant he did not want to. He could not because he could not get growth and thus could not indeed he reversed his approach.

    As I have said before he felt that the the EU would run an expansionary policy which would have help the UK as it did when US expanded while canada cut worked for Canada.

    The fact we had a global cycle was lost on the austerity supporters

  26. I wonder if something has changed minds in Madrid since this morning’s violence by the fascist Guardia Civil?

    Europe elects say 90% of polling stations are now open. Other observers saying that polling stations in Barcelona and Girona are “operating efficiently. High turnout.”

  27. @Paul Croft – couldn’t agree more and IMO the refusal by leadership to condemn such disgusting and, quite frankly, undemocratic actions does then mean that they de facto support them.

    If I was Tory high command I would design all posters for the next GE along the same theme i.e we don’t feel the need to deface the other sides posters in a true democracy etc, making anyone who then defaces them look even more stupid than they do already.

  28. Seems that some are getting a bit carried away with the supposed strength of membership in political parties we should remember that membership of all political parties together only amounts to 1.7% of the total electorate.
    It’s certainly true Labour have the most members whether there committed activists or simple think they’ve join some sort of Corbyn fan club remains to be seen.
    Still for any party to increase members is a good thing however whether it makes any difference in this electronic age remains to be seen ,the only thing as far as Labours new found membership goes it seems very middle class, there doesn’t seem much evidence of young working class voters rushing to join .
    Which leads me to the point for Labour to actually win the next GE they will need the more traditional Labour support as well, if they begin to feel sidelined by the new middle class intake then getting enough seats could be a uphill struggle.

  29. Actually all Lab need to do is make ground in Scotland and see the Tory vote recede.

    Which is what is happening now, is it not? At least according to Yougov.

  30. Catalunya

    Mossos (Catalan police) seem to have rejected instructions from Madrid, and have been filmed guarding the polling stations against the fascists.

    Previous footage showed stand off between Mossos officer trying to calm down Guardia Civil men, and being pushed out of the way.

    Catalan firefighters also acting as guards for polling stations.

    How common these occurrences are is impossible to tell, but that the “message is out there” suggests that the traditional control of the state media (and Spain’s attempt to shut down pro-Catalan internet) is not the effective weapon it once was.

  31. Fascist demonstration in Madrid …

    —-

    John Pilgrim
    I will try to be clear about the Soros affair once I get to a computer rather than a mobile.

  32. NickP

    Have YouGov done a Full Scottish poll recently? I must have missed it.

    Last one I saw was Panelbase a month ago – SNP 41%, SCon 27%, SLab 24% for Westminster.

    What are these fabulous new figures for SLab?

  33. @Oldnat

    Hopefully the Madrid Government have realised that their cack-handed attempt to shut down the referendum has failed miserably, and is deeply damaging to their reputation.

    They must surely be a attempt to climb down with as much dignity as possible.

  34. Laszlo

    “Fascist demonstration in Madrid …” – and one of Miss Brodie’s (Ruth Davidson) has gone to Spain to intervene.

    Sadly for Miss Brodie, she’s gone to support freedom in Catalunya.

    Visca Catalunya lliure!

  35. @ NICKP – Leonard was IMHO a mistake. He is ELAB and Scots especially on the left are nationalist. Sturgeon made a mistake pushing for IndyRef2 too early and took a hit in GE seats from that. 6 of the 7 LAB seats are marginal and judging by the last Scottish polls would go back to SNP.
    SLAB might not be Red Tories anymore but its obvious Leonard is the Union+Momentum choice and hence ELAB.

    A ‘left’ voter in Scotland has two choices:
    – ELAB, which might win a majority and be able to ignore Scotland
    – SNP, who could well be kingmakers and push for money, devolved powers, etc in a C+S deal with ELAB. You get the whole ‘left’ package with Scottish sweeteners.

    I’ve asked this many times, why would a ‘left’ voter in Scotland want to risk a clean LAB majority when they can have SNP ensure they get a much better deal for Scotland under a LAB C+S deal. Regarding Brexit as well Scotland are strong Remain and Sturgeon is far clearly about Remain than Corbyn. If you want a 2nd ref or best chance of reversing Brexit you’d vote SNP (assuming a pre Mar’19 GE)

    The one caveat is Sturgeon making the same mistake twice and going for IndyRef2 too early. I very much doubt she will do that but that is the only way I can see LAB holding on to more than 1 Scottish seat in next GE.

    If you see it differently, please explain the logic behind LAB winning more seats in Scotland.

  36. CMJ

    One would hope so. Although I’m also seeing reports that Rajoy has support across the Spanish Nationalist political spectrum (as he also has among the Scottish Unionist spectrum – though that’s a very narrow spectrum! :-) )

  37. “But its all very late in the day. Catching up. Not sure she is up to it either.”

    ———

    It is doubtful,that they are on the dame planet as you Col. We’re not talking Thatcher here.

    Thatcher tried cuts of course, early in her first term, when there was rather more justification: a need to constrain the money supply to try and bring down the inflation caused by the second oil price spike, alongside the desire to make cuts because that spike sent us back into recession again.

    Initially it worked to help balance the books but as Keynesians predicted, the gains were soon lost as demand fell, tax and revenues fell etc., and sadly it didn’t do much to curb inflation either. Little surprise that she quietly ditched the policy, then happily oil prices collapsed back and we had the resulting world boom.

    The key point being that as per the Selsdon way of doing things, there was a desire to shrink the state, sure, but that is a different thing from shrinking PROVISION. Thus, you might shrink the state, by passing things over to the private sector, but you still ensure you continue to buy the services from them.

    State provision has shrunk, to be replaced by private provision. If you just cut the state provision with not much to replace it, then you may find it has a rather more stark outcome.

    Blair of course was Thatcher-plus, took that paradigm and ran with it. Hand even more to the private sector, then funnel more money their way. Even with rather onerous conditions attached.

    But Thatcher was quite keen to get MORE provision herself, albeit while spending the same or less. Hence the doubling or even tripling of student numbers in various HE institutions, without hiring many more lecturers.

    The current crop are very different to Thatch and have a rather more simplistic approach to reducing the state which you might find a little disappointing…

  38. @ COLIN – I’m waiting for Hammond to amaze me. May’s Uni fees tweak had Hammond’s dull accountant hands all over it (IMHO). The two of them are in total denial to the scale of the threat. I had hoped May could limp through and learn the lesson of the GE disaster but from what I’ve seen and heard she hasn’t got the message.

    in the early 1990s the ferret in the sack routine went on until the 1997 GE when CON got hammered (albeit by a Centre LAB).

    I suspect the leadership issue will be papered over at conference but if Hammond delivers a damp squib budget and about the same time EU snub moving to trade talks then time is up on May – IMHO of course!

  39. Trevor Warne

    “Leonard was IMHO a mistake. He is ELAB and Scots especially on the left are nationalist”

    I think you are a little confused over the terminology!

    “ELab” refers to the Labour Party in the English polity, in distinction to “SLab” in the Scottish one. It has nothing to do with where someone was born, or went to school.

    Leonard is also a “nationalist” – just a UK/GB one (I don’t know where he stands re NI). AFAIK, he has been in Scotland for the last 35+ years, so is no different from a number of SNP MSPs in that regard!.

    Your implication seems to be that those “on the Scottish left” wouldn’t vote for him because he has kept his Lancashire accent.

    That is certainly what the Sarwar campaign has been suggesting – and it may be that they are aware of such a tendency among SLab members. Certainly, there were some such in SLab when I was a member – but I doubt that such folk would vote for someone of Pakistani origin either.

  40. PTRP

    @”You were arguing that because GO could not manage to cut as deeply as he would have like it meant he did not want to”

    No………….I wasn’t.

    I was explaining to you that when GO’s Deficit reduction plan undershot, he repeatedly compensated by extending timescale rather than increasing Fiscal tightening, thus giving the lie to the assertion that he just wanted to “shrink the State”.

    @”As I have said before he felt that the the EU would run an expansionary policy which would have help the UK as it did when US expanded while canada cut worked for Canada.
    The fact we had a global cycle was lost on the austerity supporters”

    I have no idea what any of this means. It sounds like a load of cobblers. If you can provide reputable sources I would like to read them. :-)

  41. TREVOR WARNE

    @” I’m waiting for Hammond to amaze me. ”

    Me too.

    @” The two of them are in total denial to the scale of the threat. ”

    I don’t really understand how May can be-and I’m sure that she can explain it to her CoE. But any Con. CoE who makes the mistake of trying to outbid a Marxist opposite number on Public Finances simply destroys the one USP Cons really have-Sound Money.

    @”in the early 1990s the ferret in the sack routine went on until the 1997 GE when CON got hammered (albeit by a Centre LAB).”

    Yep-I was there. I voted Labour in exasperation.

    It doesn’t feel like that now-not yet anyway…………and that was Blair/Brown-not Corbyn/McDonnell.

    But we agree that Cons are on a tightrope-and could fall off.

  42. “I was explaining to you that when GO’s Deficit reduction plan undershot, he repeatedly compensated by extending timescale rather than increasing Fiscal tightening, thus giving the lie to the assertion that he just wanted to “shrink the State”.”

    ——-

    Not if provision shrinks but over the longer term it doesn’t.

  43. @Colin

    “I have no idea what any of this means. It sounds like a load of cobblers. If you can provide reputable sources I would like to read them. :-)”

    ——

    Nah, it’s standard economic fare, and very useful for economic liberals, so they often cite it. What happened in Canada was proof that is WAS possible to cut without going into recession, providing there was some compensating stimulus. Osborne also proved it more recently.

    In the case of a Canada, that stimulus was a rapidly growing US economy next door. For Osborne, it was the housing stimulus he switched to after initial cuts proved the point that you need to replace the lost demand.

    That should be clear enough given your many posts on related matters!

  44. JOHN PILGRIM

    I just don’t think-laudable though the idea is-that the idea that the EU can stop economic immigration by ” long-term programmes of investment to achieve economic parity with the EU,” in all those African countries is on Planet Reality.

    The disparities in GDP ph are enormous. THe governments in question aren’t all models of representative democracy-most of that “investment” would be stolen.

    And you cannot manage this sort of change on an international scale by dictat from Brussels. It is Top Down Socialist Central Planning of the lunatic variety imo.

    And anyway-we came into this exchange with you suggesting that these hair brained ideas would facilitate a change of heart in UK on Brexit & thus keep Hezza Happy.

    It is La La Land John.

    The only thing which will control mass economic migration is Control of your Borders-and that will take some doing given the numbers.

  45. JOHN PILGRIM

    How about the EU does something about this ?

    That would help African economic growth wouldn’t it ?

    https://capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/

    ww w.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/africa-eu-poverty-james-cleverly_uk_5720d08be4b0a1e971cad84f

    ww w.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/

  46. Nick p

    The Tories could have been in a position to abandon austerity and spin it as a triumph if they hadn’t cut taxes for the elite. They wanted to keep the deficit and overall debt a problem so that they had justification to continue hammering the public sector, now that strategy is biting them in an uncomfortable place. That’s the problem when you hide your ideology because you know that your ideology is unpopular.

  47. PRINCESS RACHEL

    @”The Tories could have been in a position to abandon austerity and spin it as a triumph if they hadn’t cut taxes for the elite.”

    No. Basic Rate Taxpayers :-
    2009/10 – 27202
    2014/15 – 24715

    No. Higher Rate Taxpayers:-
    2009/10 – 3190
    2015/15 – 4953

    HMRC

  48. PRINCESS RACHEL
    @”The Tories could have been in a position to abandon austerity and spin it as a triumph if they hadn’t cut taxes for the elite.”

    http://www.rossmartin.co.uk/tax-guides/117-tax-rates-and-allowances

  49. Valerie, Nick P

    Absolutely correct, I got both badly wrong. No comment on the next election, too many imponderables for now, I think you would agree.

    Peter Cairns SNP
    “Since when was “If only the EU could change the UK FPTP system for a PR one over the head of Westminster” one of the things that would made you vote remain.”

    I haven’t the faintest idea what you are talking about; I certainly did not post that. Apart from anything else I like FPTP, and could never vote Remain.

    It’s you who looks the silly old fool to use your ad hominem. I dislike right wing extremists as much as left wing extremists and I would not want to remain in an organisation with them, clearly another reason for leaving the EU. A view I think at least Laszlo would understand, even if he didn’t agree with me about the EU.

    Colin
    Thanks, I will do my bit to help the party keep Corbyn out.

    “The only thing which will control mass economic migration is Control of your Borders-and that will take some doing given the numbers.”

    Absolutely right, no other way.

  50. Colin

    Presumably Rachel was referring to the reduction (April 2012) in tax from 50% to 45% for those earning over £150,000 a year.

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