We’re heading into Summer and the silly season now, so don’t necessarily expect much polling (August tends to be quite anyway…the month after a general election even more so). This is just a quick update on the latest YouGov voting intention figures, which are CON 41%(nc), LAB 44%(+1), LDEM 7%(+1). Fieldwork was Monday to Tuesday and changes are from a fortnight ago. Full tabs are here.


891 Responses to “YouGov/Times – CON 41%, LAB 44%, LDEM 7%”

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  1. @Andrewlll

    Well to be fair you did misquote a bit…

  2. @CR

    “I thought the big takeaway from the “traditional media sources” polls was that the young was the biggest consumers of media in all its forms. Which presumably means that they are better informed than the older generation.”

    ———-

    In the stuff I cited a little while back showed the young being less polarised than the older. They don’t just consume more media but it’s also broader. Which is why you can talk magic money trees and Thorium with them while the oldies just go “arglefargleflournishlabble!!”

  3. Corbyn and the polls

    on such a hypersensitive site as this where every view and nuance is explored it is sometimes hard to understand that the electorate in the main would not even know what we are talking about let alone care.
    A number of posters took umbrage about the reporting of the corbyn tuition pledge or non pledge.The fine details are lost in the main but the electorate simply register that corbyn is against tuition fees.And that is that. .
    The same about venezuela.If anything demonstrates the political bubble this does.I would estimate that this is an issue for a minority of
    a minority and yet it features prominently in the media. But it has no traction outside that number. Most of the electorate dont know where it is and care even less and couldnt give a da* what Corbyn thinks about it. I suspect that Corbyn knows this and is happliy cycling in Croatia with no intention of being drawn in. And this brings me to a bigger point about Corbyn :

    a. Corbyn has become one of those rare politicians who is in the jargon “teflon Coated” . He joins Farage and Boris although in the latter case it is wearing off.If the public does not care about trident, the IR* or anti-semetism they are unlikely to be overburdened with his views on events in caracas.
    b. Corbyn is set in his views . This bodes ill for those who think that he will become a supporter of the EU.All the evidence is that he believes Britian should leave the EU.
    c. Corbyn does not change his views.This too bodes ill for remainers.Corbyn is at his most uncomfortable when he has to pretend to compromise and is desperately unconvincing.But that is quite liked because it is clear that he has not changed at all.The reason he talks about leaving the single market is not some fine political calculation balancing the two wings but because he believes that is what must happen and possibly because he also wants it to happen.

    IMHO Corbyn will allow his shadow ministers to follow masterly ambiguity and will seek to exploit the brexit difficulties of the government but will he allow Brexit to fail? i dont think so.

  4. @S Thomas

    IMHO Corbyn will allow his shadow ministers to follow masterly ambiguity and will seek to exploit the brexit difficulties of the government but will he allow Brexit to fail? i dont think so.

    @Oldnat wrote this:

    Once we see the outline of an actual “deal”, then the varying strategies of parties in Scotland might resonate more or less with voters.

    Which of the fault lines actually predominates at the time of an election will be critical for the Scottish vote.

    I agree with Oldnat, that while Brexit is up in the air many voters (and indeed politicians) across the are keeping a flexible approach. Entering something so unknown with a fixed view is a difficult line to hold.

    All you can do have an idea of what a desirable outcome might look like (ie access to the single market etc), but flexibility on getting there is essential.

    It seems that Labour’s approach is both practical and reflects a good part of the electorate.

  5. catmanjeff

    if the electorate is split down the middle the best position to be in for popularity is looking both ways .people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest as Simon and garfunkel might sing.
    Unfortunately for the Government half the electorate dont want them to be dong what they are doing and the other half dont like how they are doing it!
    it is remarkable that they are polling what they are.
    .

  6. @CR
    re the voters that went LDem in 2010,UKIP in 2015 and Labour in 2017, the journey make eminent good sense if you forget political policy and think of them as people who are simply ‘against’ how things are.

    Lord Ashcroft said IIRC that for most ordinary voters the referendum question was successfully framed by Leave as ‘Are you happy with things as they are now?’ and a majority of people answered ‘No’.

    The voters on this ‘strange’ journey are exactly the people who answered ‘No’ to that question – that doesn’t mean they are particularly anti EU, or pro-liberal, or pro-Corbyn. they are simply fed up with how things are and vote for the offering that appears to offer the greatest chance of a change.

    Not to mention a chance to stick one up at the ‘establishment’…

  7. @S Thomas

    Brexit is a massive bind for the Government for sure – a near impossible conundrum.

    The root of this problem lay with Mr Cameron, trying shore up the Conservative to UKIP switchers in 2015.

    The current Government find themselves in a poker game with 27 other players, having had all their decent cards thrown away.

  8. catmanjeff

    I agree about cameron.But i do not think a referendum could be avoided.There would have needed to be a referendum on any treaty change at some stage in any event and motivated leavers would have defeated that on principle.
    My criticism of Cameron is that he lost it.Now i am a brexiteer so do not misunderstand me. But Cameron approached the negotiations in an amateur and arrogant manner. he treated the concerns of the electorate about immigration and loss of sovereignty with scant regard and preferred to concentrate on the minor issue of exported benefits solely in my opinion to harvest daily mail/express support.
    if he had concentrated on actually exercising the immigration powers that we actually had and sought to row back the eCJ powers to pre lisbon and masstricht as far as the uK ic concerned it coud have been won.
    The campaign perfectly reflected the character of Cameron (and Osborne) even down to his pouty resignation.

  9. S Thomas

    Immigration is not the problem. It may be the issue, because immigration has always been an easy problem to sell to the uninformed, but it’s not the problem.

    The problem is that successive governments, both Lab and Con have enjoyed the thriving economic growth that immigration helped to power, but forgot to plough money into those areas that saw the downsides to immigration if more money had been put into regeneration and training to help those affected by immigration find well paid jobs then there would have been no need for a referendum.

    Why do brexiteers keep on harping on about immigration.

    Why do we have to keep going round these cycles of blaming immigrants for the failings of our own nation and governments

    History shows us this is bogus.

    Immigration is the patsy.

  10. TONYBTG
    I was seriously considering voting out from a left wing point of view. But in the end the clinching argument for me was, ‘whilst not all out voters are xenophobic racists, all the xenophobic racists will be voting out.’
    As the old song goes “You can tell a man who boozes by the company he chooses, and the pig got up and he slowly walked away!”

  11. Good Morning to everyone from Bournemouth East, now a target seat for Corbyn Labour (75 on the list).

    Before Park Run this morning I listened with interest to Mervyn King’s interview on BBC Radio Four.

    Linking to CATMANUEFF’s contribution at 8.32 am; it seems that BREXIT was a Tory Game-gone wrong- with which no one knows what to do.

  12. RJW

    Ditto. But in the end, I was not up for committing national suicide.

    ChrisLane

    Yes I read MK’s remarks. I hope that the government are seriously planning for all eventualities. We don’t have a good track record in negotiations with the EU. So I expect the worst kind of outcome.

    Yes, a Tory game that threatens to bring us all down with the rest of them.

    All IMO of course. I could be wrong. Let’s hope so, hey!

  13. Thanks to Varadkar, even the broadcast media finally seem to be understanding why a hard border in Ireland is going to be problematic.

    Sky News seemed to be astonished last night over the issue, and the press reviewers seemed to be unable to comprehend it. Sadly, they don’t seem to have a clip of the press review, but they do have quite a good article on the topic with Irish PM Varadkar urges Stormont parties to return to powersharing as Brexit looms, which includes 3 good video clips.

    The Times also has at least two articles on the topic, of which the more interesting one is perhaps Enclave with no way out of the Irish hard border dilemma. For those with no free page views, the meat is perhaps:

    If leaving the EU has become something of a preoccupation for most of us, in Drummully Polyp it will soon be as unavoidable as popping to the shops.

    A quirk of history has landed this pocket of Co Monaghan, in the Irish Republic, on the front line of Brexit.

    The area is for practical purposes an enclave within Co Fermanagh, and can only be reached by road via Northern Ireland. Drummully — three miles long, two miles wide and home to a few hundred people connected to the rest of the republic by a stem of land 100m across — had difficulty over access until the European Union and the end of the Troubles eased the inconvenience.

    Brexit threatens to make living there a problem again. John Connolly, a farmer and salesman for a packaging company, says: “You don’t know you’re in Northern Ireland or southern Ireland unless you were brought up here.”

    Many residents in Drummully struggle to conceive how a hard border could be applied. According to EU law all livestock entering the bloc must be inspected at a border post.

  14. Some good discussion on here today. Particularly like the ‘teflon’ Corbyn. This does seem apt right now – the perception seems to be that here is a politician who actually has beliefs that he will try to stick to, the only issue is whether you like those beliefs or not. It took 1.5 years for that message to get through though, and it’ll be interesting to see how long it lasts – maybe once established it’ll be difficult to remove?

    On the other hand, there’s the conference season coming, so there’s plenty of potential for problems there I expect.

  15. One can only imagine the confusion of those being polled for their brexit opinions being asked about “Britain” leaving the EU.

    “Surely they mean ‘ukexit’ ?” they will have thunk. “I shall answer ‘don’t know’. “

  16. BZ
    I have a cousin in Norn Iron, left wing, non-sectarian. He says people are very worried at the potential for mayhem. So far the violent men on both sides of the divide have been quiet, some might say quiescent.
    “They haven’t gone away you know”, was a favourite tag on posters and murals used by both sides to highlight the danger, as they saw it,of the lurkers in the shadows.

  17. PETE B

    I was thinking it might be something to do with left and right hemispheres of the brain. Actually, I’ve just looked at the age breakdown and it’s less marked than the Labour/UKIP difference. 10% of 18-24 and 8% of over65s.
    Here’s the link.
    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/results#/survey/407fa8eb-78f8-11e7-afeb-29ba37326efc/question/e94699d5-78f8-11e7-98ed-a5444635f703/age
    If we can come up with three quite plausible reasons for the difference in such a simple question, it does emphasise how cautious we all have to be about interpreting what more serious polls mean.

    Thanks for the info. More information helps narrow things down, though. There’s some evidence that age may play a part, especially with the over-65s[1]. Actually the most interesting age-related figure is to do with those who say “Don’t know” 9% of under-25s, only 1% of over-65s. An interesting sidelight on the decline of handwriting.

    Most of the rest of the difference is probably just chance and small sample size. Because it is a post-17 election sample[2], based on 3592 adults, perhaps 93% of whom voted[3], but weighted to a UKIP vote of only 1.8%, you would only be looking at a sub sample for UKIP voters of 60. It’s only really UKIP that’s the outlier in terms of left-handedness – though I wonder if some Tories might be saying they’re ambidextrous to avoid the L-word.

    [1] This may also be affected by the theory that left-handed people don’t live as long.

    [2] These Live Results are based on self-selecting samples from the YouGov panel, weighted by demographic and (presumably) political data that YouGov already have on file for their members, including how they voted at the previous election. That is why I needed when the poll was because a UKIP sample post-15 rather than post 17 would be a lot bigger.

    [3] Obviously actual turnout was much lower (68.7%), but YouGov panelists are more likely to vote than average. The 93% is derived from here:
    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/1mb88iuadf/InternalResults_170613_2017Election_Demographics_W.pdf

  18. @ CatmanJeff

    “it’s the anti-SNP tactical voting”

    Is there actually any polling evidence for anti SNP tactical voting in Scotland (I may have missed it drowned out by the Brexit posts!)?

    Obviously SNP vote has gone down substantially but that doesn’t mean that people are actively trying to elect someone who is not SNP just that they have reverted to their former parties.

    Personally I think it may be more to do with a drop in the anti Tory tactical vote, perhaps because Lab/SNP voters are unwilling to tactically vote for the closest challenger to the Tories for a dislike of the other party.

  19. RJW @ BZ

    I have a cousin in Norn Iron, left wing, non-sectarian. He says people are very worried at the potential for mayhem

    I agree that the situation is becoming worse although I find it hard to believe that both Con & DUP really want to trash the Belfast Agreement.

    We may learn more next month given yesterday’s tweet by LucidTalk replying to Alex Kane [a regular contributor to the Belfast Telegraph]:
    border poll may be closer than some think.NB Watch out for our next NI poll in Sept, covering Border Poll & Brexit.

    What I find scary is the adamant disbelief of fact by leading Brexiteers like the Con’s Paterson and the DUP’s Donaldson. If they could point to a single comparable border system in current operation then perhaps their dreams would be achievable in the very short time they have before 2019 it would be different.

    One of the excellent reasons why Schengen works and is necessary is that there are a lot of enclaves/exclaves within it, for example:
    · Baarle-Hertog [B] and Baarle Nassau [NL] is weird, to put it mildly. As exclave.eu puts it: Baarle-Hertog is noted for its complicated borders with Baarle-Nassau in the Netherlands. In total it consists of 23 separated pieces of land. Apart from the main piece (called Zondereigen) located north of the Belgian town of Merksplas, there are 22 Belgian exclaves in the Netherlands. There are also seven Dutch exclaves within the Belgian exclaves. Six of them are located in the largest one and a seventh in the second-largest one. An eighth Dutch exclave lies in Zondereigen.
    · Büsingen am Hochrhein is a German town entirely surrounded by the Swiss canton of Schaffhausen and south across the Rhine by the cantons of Zürich and Thurgau.
    · Campione d’Italia is an Italian Municipality of the Province of Como in the Lombardy region, occupying an enclave within the Swiss canton of Ticino, separated from the rest of Italy by Lake Lugano and mountains. The enclave is less than 1 km at the shortest point from the rest of Italy, but the hilly terrain requires a journey by road of over 14 km to reach the nearest Italian town, Lanzo d’Intelvi, and over 28 km to reach the city of Como.
    · Llívia is a Spanish exclave entirely surrounded by France, which in Franco times was noted for smuggling as it’s main industry.

    The logical solution would be for both the RoI & the UK to join Schengen!

    That would, of course, also solve the Irish & UK passport checking issues currently needed in the Schengen area and allow officials to concentrate on passport checks for non EU/EEA territories.

    As it is, Rowan Atkinson’s remark in his “father of the bride” sketch is apposite re HMG and the DUP: I wouldn’t trust any of them to sit the right way on a lavatory.

  20. @RJW “I was seriously considering voting out from a left wing point of view. But in the end the clinching argument for me was, ‘whilst not all out voters are xenophobic racists, all the xenophobic racists will be voting out.’”

    That’s utterly shameful logic.

    All members of the Nazi party were Germans, thus all Germans are tainted?

    Engage with the actual argument, don’t identify and choose a position just because some sections of society might take a similar position based on different beliefs.

  21. Chris Lane – Bournemouth East is certainly not the 75th most winnable seat for Labour. I have compiled a list of the 75 seats which would fall to Labour on the smallest swing, in ascending order, and the largest of them requires a swing of only just over 4.5% (from third place, from Plaid Cymru – it’s Ceredigion). That’s far smaller than the swing required to win either Bournemouth constituency. If you were to compile a list of the top 75 TORY-HELD ONLY seats targetted by Labour, then that’s more possible.

  22. SEA CHANGE @ RJW

    That’s utterly shameful logic.

    You’re wrong there.

    All members of the Nazi party were Germans, thus all Germans are tainted?

    That’s almost the opposite of RJW’s comment. The nearest equivalent would be:

    Not all Germans were anti-semitic, but all members of the NSDAP were.

    You could still argue that some NSDAP members had little choice but to join or become unemployed, of course, but it’s hardly “shameful logic”.

  23. Roger Mexico
    Thanks for your analysis of the handedness poll. The anomalies probably are due to small sample size as both you and (I think) Carfrew suggested. The DK answer for youngsters is quite amazing. Perhaps the term isn’t used any more and they use a more PC form such as ‘differently dextrous’? :-)

  24. Barnaby marder

    “If you were to compile a list of the top 75 TORY-HELD ONLY seats targetted by Labour, then that’s more possible”

    I can’t see the point in targeting seats not held by Tories, it would seem to me to be a waste of resources

  25. CATMANJEFF
    “It seems that Labour’s approach is both practical and reflects a good part of the electorate.”

    That is they seek to retain in a continued relationship with the EU a free movement of labour in which structure is less important than benefit to the UK economy and jobs.
    Several threads back AW advised that we should monitor further polls to see whether a) a Lab lead, and b) opposition to a hard Brexit were a trend – as against a bounce, spike or just churning. There seems little doubt that both are a trend.
    This changes the analysis of cause in a popular increase in Lab VI. Matthew Parrish’s two articles in the Times, one today attacking the behaviour of a wealthy and powerful class in exploiting the conditions in which earning and wealth and access to them are becoming increasingly disproportionate; the other a few days ago,, attacking the Tory Government for its incompetence.
    Rather than single causes – Grenfell, failure in the NHS,, or in the police and prisons, it is the popular perception of the wider failure of government and of purpose in a governmental class which underlies a growing opposition to the Government. The fact that Labour are overwhelmingly and progressiely benefit is down in large part to some old-fashioned political management of campaigning,but beyond that of a purposful and organised movement which has a single purpose, to get a change of government. What is particulaly interesting about this is the extent to which it is similarly to regime change in East Germany and Eastern Europe in being fuelled by the young and by an alternative intellectual class, rather than an elite, being harnessed by the Labour party..

  26. ‘whilst not all out voters are xenophobic racists, all the xenophobic racists will be voting out.’
    @RJW August 5th, 2017 at 10:17 am

    A gem of a quote for me to bag and steal for use, perhaps, elsewhere. Thank you!

  27. @BZ

    It is shameful to refuse a position that you believe in just because someone else might take the same position who believes in something for an entirely different reason.

    Your example was more apt however my point stands.

  28. John Pilgrim

    “What is particulaly interesting about this is the extent to which it is similarly to regime change in East Germany and Eastern Europe in being fuelled by the young and by an alternative intellectual class.”

    Wrong on every single point. Western leftist fantasy, and not historical fact.

  29. John Pilgrim

    Just got a good measure. Momentum – the Hungarian one, not the Labour associated one, beloved by the Western left currently (advertised in opinion pieces in Guardian, Independent) are just the same old proto-fascist organisation as Fidesz was back in 1989, when it was beloved here.

  30. Sea change

    You should take your “it’s shameful to refuse a position” message to the general public. I’m sure that we are all aware of the video where people were asked their thoughts on a range of issues mostly agreeing with Corbyn’s policies until they heard that they were Corbyn policies.

  31. SEA CHANGE @ BZ re RJW

    It is shameful to refuse a position that you believe in just because someone else might take the same position who believes in something for an entirely different reason.

    I think you’re somewhat OTT regarding belief. For many, or perhaps even most of us, beliefs can be transient, and usually are.

    For example, I believe that there is a level crossing at the bottom of the hill at which I live near the top. Being around several corners, I can no longer be certain it’s still there, but if next time I pass the point where it existed yesterday to find that it no longer exists, perhaps because the railway track has gone, I will revise my belief and make a mental note not to rely on using that railway ever again.

  32. @Laszlo ” Wrong on every single point. Western leftist fantasy, and not historical fact.”

    Amen. The historical revisionism I read online on a regular basis to fit a particular view is almost frightening. Thankfully the internet also provides ready sources to debunk.

    @Cambridgerachel

    What’s your point? That lots of people follow RJW’s thinking even though it is manifestly wrong? Why bring up Corbyn? You could just have easily brought up people who disagree with May’s policies only when they find out out they are Tory.

  33. @BZ

    On this forum I expect people to take reasoned positions. It is after all a site based primarily on polling statistics.

    Anybody who changes their position just because of the company they might be incorrectly identified with deserves no respect IMO.

    Your analogy about the train tracks and belief has little relevance to the basic principle I am stating.

  34. Sea change

    I know plenty of those people as well, I would guess that at least 50% of the public are totally tribal.

  35. Sea change

    I’ve noticed quite a few people on this site turn on a sixpence when the party they support changes it’s position. It’s not something which is confined to any particular denomination, we are all equally at fault here. What is rare is people being honest about their less reasoned motives, usually people create bogus reasoned arguments to justify changing their minds.

  36. SEA CHANGE @BZ re RJW

    Anybody who changes their position just because of the company they might be incorrectly identified with deserves no respect IMO.

    You seem to use the word belief in an almost religious sense. Conviction would be more appropriate, I think, although I’m not a god botherer. We can agree to differ, but I do think RJW is quite entitled to change his beliefs as the facts change around him.

    He may well think that giving HMG complete flexibility over Labour law could be worthwhile if the right HMG is in place but concerned that the current HMG would use such powers to his own detriment.

    My own view is that in a state which has no meaningful constitution and little democracy it would be madness to rid ourselves of the protections offered by the ECJ and ECHR.

  37. LASZLO
    ” Momentum – the Hungarian one, not the Labour associated one, beloved by the Western left currently (advertised in opinion pieces in Guardian, Independent) are just the same old proto-fascist organisation as Fidesz was back in 1989.”,

    Yes, you’re better informed on the Hungarian Momentum than I, but I was thinking more of E.Germany. This not to say, that there may be some who hanker for the decisiveness of action which toppled E.European totalitarian regimes – how do you define proto fascist,, as against fascist – just to make sure we are not talking about anyone or any manifesto in the good old U of K?

  38. @BZ

    He was changing his position not based on facts and not on his conviction (or lack of it), rather that he didn’t wish to be identified with another group who just happened to come to the same position but for entirely different reasons!

    No backbone whatsoever and certainly no conviction.

    Perhaps others find such vacillation appealing. I’ll leave it at that.

  39. SEAT CHANGE
    Well, I come back from a trip to Waitrose to find I’ve been trolled by you for explaining my genuine thought processes regarding which side to pick in the referendum! Moreover you’ve gone for the full Godwin by erroneously bringing the Nazis into the mix, not the sort of thing we are used to on this site.
    Two more bits of “fuzzy logic” for you to chew on, Nigel Farage in debate always put forward the purest constitutional reasons for wanting out of the EU, reclaiming our sovereignty etc, BUT he also let slip that he felt uncomfortable listening to ‘foreign’ being spoke on the bus. To me both messages said a lot about choosing very carefully which side I was on, to me it would have been shameful to have been on the same side as somebody who deliberately played upon and thereby validated people’s prejudice.
    Thanks CR, BZ, Al Urqua for your support.

  40. BARNABY MARDER
    Hello to you.
    The Candidate for Labour in Bournemouth West said that Lab HQ have made Bournemouth East the 75 target for them.

    In recent years btw there is just one Bournemouth CLP. I know one Old Labour man who resigned due to Corbynista attitudes on a range of issues)

    (I have just seen the last sentence of your post- referring to Tory- held Marginals, which explains the discrepancy- so thank you.

  41. @sea change

    “On this forum I expect people to take reasoned positions. It is after all a site based primarily on polling statistics.
    Anybody who changes their position just because of the company they might be incorrectly identified with deserves no respect IMO.”

    “No backbone whatsoever and certainly no conviction.
    Perhaps others find such vacillation appealing. I’ll leave it at that.”

    Firstly, I don’t think personal insults are any part of this site and you might want to withdraw your insults.

    Secondly there is nothing at all wrong with RJW’s reasoning. If you find yourself on the same side of an argument as xenophobes, racists and extreme right wingers it is quite right to question whether you are on the right side of the argument. Not least as it may well be the case that the lesser of two evils has to be chosen.

    Finally you appeal to reason but I seem to recall a recent post of yours which appealed to a thousand years of a nation’s history as a “reason” why Brexit will be a success. Apart from its complete lack of any historical veracity ( which “nation” has existed on these islands for a thousand years?), the past is not a map of the future.

  42. “Venezuela’s new constituent assembly has voted to sack top prosecutor Luisa Ortega, during its first day of work.”

    BBC.

    “a different and a better way of doing things.” ? :-)

  43. Hireton
    I find your reasoning flawed and your support of extreme language surprising

    rewrite your comment:

    “If you find yourself on the same side of the argument as c*wards, trait*rs and communists it is quite right to question whether you are on the right side of the argument”

    legitimate comment on this site ?

  44. @” xenophobes, racists and extreme right wingers”

    Shouldn’t that be “extreme left wingers” ?

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/10/anti-semitism-and-left-something-rotten-state-labour

  45. @RJW

    I withdraw my comment about lack of backbone as that is not in the spirit of this site. However your statement about Farage demonstrates lack of conviction. If somebody makes a valid point about the Constitutional position of the UK which you agree with, just because they make another statement that you disagree with, doesn’t invalidate the first position.

    @Hireton – “Finally you appeal to reason but I seem to recall a recent post of yours which appealed to a thousand years of a nation’s history as a “reason” why Brexit will be a success. Apart from its complete lack of any historical veracity ( which “nation” has existed on these islands for a thousand years?), the past is not a map of the future.”

    You haven’t been reading what I have written or are making assertions up to fit your argument. “The 1000 years of history” was a reference to Hugh Gaitskell’s Labour’s Brighton Conference speech in 1962 which I referenced and linked to when discussing Britain’s fraught relationship with the RU.

  46. I see no-one wants to be on the same side as “racists and xenophobes”…

    Or is it that their existence is denied?

    Shows you can’t be too careful!

  47. @ RJW

    “I come back from a trip to Waitrose…”

    I wasn’t thinking of trolling you, but now I know you shop at Waitrose, well, that’s just beyond the pale. You deserve a good trolling.

  48. Colin

    I’ll see your

    “Venezuela’s new constituent assembly has voted to sack top prosecutor Luisa Ortega, during its first day of work.”

    And raise you

    14 protesters awaiting public execution in Saudi Arabia

  49. Interesting link @CR.
    I’d quibble with the statement that Thatch was ‘the most successful PM of the 20th Century’ though. My adjective would be ‘disastrous’ – though Cameron is a strong challenger in that race. It seems JC may be the required antidote and we might even get him in due course. Trouble is he will be taking on a patient with chronic sicknesses and a recently- acquired tendency to wilfully self-harm

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