This week Phil Cowley at Queen Mary University of London released some new YouGov polling of London. Topline voting intention figures for London are CON 34%(-1), LAB 37%(-7), LDEM 14%(+6), UKIP 9%(+1) – changes are since the general election in 2015.

The most useful way to interpret regional voting intention polls is to see whether it is behaving similarly or differently to the country as whole. Does it suggest that any change in support is the much the same as everywhere else, or does it show a party is doing better or worse than in other parts of the country? There is often an assumption that London is the core of Jeremy Corbyn’s support and that’s where Labour will being doing best. In fact the polling suggests Labour are doing about as well in London as elsewhere. YouGov’s GB polls tend to show Labour at around 25%, down six points since the general election. This poll suggests a very similar seven point drop for Labour in London.

The more interesting figures are the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. Across the country as a whole the Conservatives have gained support since the general election, but this poll suggests that’s not reflected in London. Equally, while many national polls suggest an improvement for the Lib Dems since 2015, it’s not as much as the six point increase this poll suggests has taken place in London. It’s not particularly surprising to find the Conservatives doing worse and the Lib Dems doing better in the one region of England that voted to remain in the European Union, but it’s nice to have evidence to actually back it up.

Full tabs are here.


294 Responses to “YouGov/QMUL poll of London”

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  1. Re British ‘aggression’

    The War of the Spanish Succession was kicked off by the French attacking the Dutch in the Spanish Netherlands. We were allied with the Dutch, so joined in, and took Gibraltar as part of the campaign because Spain and France were allied.

    Article X of The Treaty of Utrecht:

    “The Catholic King does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging; and he gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever.”

  2. Candy
    But nothing lasts for ever. Morover, Spain could reasonably claim that the Treaty of Utrecht was signed under duress .Treaties are often revoked by the countries that signed them!

  3. @GRAHAM

    “Whilst Germany would not wish to return such territories would it be reasonable after 75 years for the defeated countries to launch an attack on Germany to regain them?”

    It depends. It depends largely on how much the territory seized would be and also what Germany would be willing to give in return.
    An interesting analogy is the Franco-Prussian war of 1870-71 in which Alsace-Lorraine was seized by Germany as the price for peace with the defeated France. In 1918, after 47 years, France still insisted on the return of Alsace-Lorraine as a condition for an armistice.

    Personally, I don’t think Spain would ever launch a military attack to seize Gibraltar. The issue is a matter of pride for the Spanish, nothing else. The territory is too small for Spain to make a big issue out of it, nevertheless it plays well with the Spanish populace if Spain is seen to be acting tough. It’s just posturing in my opinion.

  4. @Graham

    Spain 300 years ago was a superpower – hard for someone in that situation to claim they were acting “under duress”!

  5. Graham
    In actual fact, though there were concessions on both sides, the Franco-Spanish side ‘won’ because their candidate became the new Spanish king, which was what the war was all about.

  6. @TANCRED
    ‘The territory is too small for Spain to make a big issue out of it, nevertheless it plays well with the Spanish populace if Spain is seen to be acting tough. It’s just posturing in my opinion’

    I am sure that is correct.

  7. Interesting article in the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/692768f4-17a3-11e7-a53d-df09f373be87

    quote

    Central banks are dumping euros amid concerns over political instability, weak growth and the European Central Bank’s negative interest rate policy — and favour sterling as a long-term, stable alternative.

    Despite uncertainty over Brexit — formally triggered last week by prime minister Theresa May — central bankers from around the world see the UK as a safer prospect for their reserve investments than the eurozone, a new poll reveals.

    According to a survey published Monday of reserve managers at 80 central banks, who together are responsible for investments worth almost €6trn, the stability of the monetary union is their greatest fear for 2017.

    The results — compiled by trade publication Central Banking Publications and the bank HSBC earlier this year — show some respondents have cut their entire exposure to the euro, while others have reduced their holdings of investments denominated in euros to the bare minimum.

    end quote

  8. Re. Rallings and Thrasher and the local elections

    Historically they have generally ovwrpredicted lib dem performance in local elections. On May 4th expect the lib Dems to do well, but not that well. With Ukip collapsing I expect the Tories to make the most net gains.

  9. Tusks job is to represent the interests of the EU and it’s members.

    Gibraltar is part of the EU and is leaving with the U.K.

    Spain believes it has a territorial claim on Gibraltar and so wants to make that clear.

    Tusk has effectively said that with issues relating to Gibraltar the interests of the remaining member state must be taken into account as there is a special interest involved.

    Tusk also mentions the Peace process becausespecific interests of the Irish Republic, another member state are involved.

    The third specific member interest he mentions is Cyprus as their is a Soverign UK base there.

    In all three cases he is saying the EU will work to safeguard the interest of the member state.

    In Cyprus there is no real problem as both sides want no change and there shouldn’t be much.

    In Ireland there is concern because both sides don’t want to see change but there is going to be some.

    With Gibraltar the issue is that the two interested Governments UK and Spain ultimately want different things.

    In all three cases Tusk has been consistent in representing what EU members want.

    There is nothing contentious or unreasonable in anything he has said, but still the Brexiteers are on the War path.

    The sensible thing do do is calm this whole thing down and treat it as the minor side issue that it is before we can’t se properly for the Red Mist.

    Push this all the way over nothing and it could be detrimental to both Gibraltar and the UK’s interests for years.

    Brexiteers keep saying that Remoaners should get behind Britain to get the best possible deal; fine well in that case in the interests of the best possible deal for the UK stop treating a mention of Gibraltar in draft guidelines as if it’s Pearl Harbor!!!!

    Peter.

  10. @PETE B

    The histrorical background does not detract from the seizure of Gibraltar and its cession as a spoil of war. There is also the issue of whether a treaty signed over 300 years ago should still have value in a modern, integrated Europe. Many people would argue that some ‘give and take’ is necessary and a shared sovereignty should be a realistic option.

  11. Andrew
    Thank goodness for a post about polling! I think your analysis quite reasonable, though I’m not sure how many gains the Tories will make because I believe they already control most of these councils?

  12. Tancred

    Both the Foreign Office and the Department of Business, etc bled a lot of civil servants (so did other relevant departments) in the last decade (Boar of Industry and Trade about 20,000 civil servants in the early 1990s).

    Recruiting civil servants (it is happening) cost a lot of pension, and relatively high salaries (as they would need to be at a high grade). So, the difference is not that much. Mind, probably quite a few of these consultants are former civil servants (certainly in the Departmwnt of Business, etc).

    But something has to be done. Inveating into AI could also help (just tomgo,through the millions of pages).

  13. @CANDY

    “Spain 300 years ago was a superpower – hard for someone in that situation to claim they were acting “under duress”!”

    Not relevant. America was a superpower during the Vietnam War but still had to accept a less than satisfactory outcome from their perspective.

  14. Alec

    Your post regarding Gibraltar and the support you were showered with praise by fellow travellers shows why you are incapable of not being Partisan. It is not the duty of “brexiteers”at all. That is all over it ended on june the 23rd 2016. Difficult for you to grasp i know. It is the now the British Government that is negotiating over Gibraltar not remainers or brexiteers.
    The Government are putting into the effect the democratically expressed will of the majority of the British People supported (and this is where it gets difficult for you) by both houses of parliament comprising both sides in the referendum.
    If they have moved on is it not time you did the same?.
    I know that you have told us that you would wear any football kit save one of the home nations but can you not accept that it is your country and not a sect which is negotiating with the EU.
    Some one somewhere may do a study as to why the most vociferous remainers and the scottish nationalist posters are shouting loudest in support of the bullying of Gibralter by a foreign country.

  15. Just pedantry, really:

    By the time of the Utrecht Treaty Spain was not super power, butma regional one (imports destroyed the home economy – the same happened to the Dutch).

    The superpower was the British Empire (even if not by name) that defeated the most powerful military of the Continent several times in a hundred years in the 18th, early 19th century.

  16. @LASZLO

    True, but consultants take their knowledge and expertise with them, while civil servants keep it in-house. In IT, where I work, employing outside consultants is a hot issue precisely for this reason.

  17. I see the dialogue of the deaf continues and becomes ever more fractious. Not even new polling can save us from the new tribalism: move over Lilliput and Blefuscu we now have Brexitland and Remainia

  18. @GRAHAM
    “@Tancred

    “In other words, it is effectively the product of past aggression.”
    It is the product of a war – I refrain from using the politically charged word ‘aggression’.”

    It is the product of the terms of a peace treaty, along with a lot of other territorial provisions which it would be hard to undo now.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Utrecht

  19. @LASZLO

    True, Spain’s heyday was in the 17th century, not the 18th. Britain was already well moving into the ascendancy by 1713. Thereafter only France was strong enough to challenge Britain until German unification in 1871.

  20. @Candy – “The Spanish have made a panicky response today, so it is working.”

    Well, that’s one point of view.

    I think most independent observers will see a massive panic within the UK government, who invented the entire sovereignty issue, and a very laid back Spanish response, even poking fun at the UK’s reputation for level headedness.

    The fact that there has been absolutely no reaction from Spain, other than a very mild expression of surprise at the reaction within the UK, indicates that you are dreaming, again.

    Spain will be very, very comfortable with the current position. They have the UK exactly where they want us to be, and some of the Brexit brigade are realising that they really should have thought about Gibraltar before 23rd June.

    There are reasons why they voted 96% to stay in the EU!

  21. TANCRED
    @ALLAN CHRISTIE
    I think the more relevant question is this one:

    “If the status of Gibraltar was the only thing preventing the UK from getting a much better Brexit deal, would you support passing at least some sovereignty over the territory to Spain?
    Yes I would 37%

    No I would not 46%

    Don’t know 17%”

    Obviously a lot more evenly split
    __________

    It’s hardly a surprising.

  22. WB

    i have been to Blefuscu. Is it just outside Cardiff?

  23. #It’s hardly a surprising result.

    Looks like there has been a terror attack in St Petersburg Russia.

  24. @Alec

    You might want to read the following FT article about Gib’s economy:

    https://www.ft.com/content/46f93a3e-0eeb-11e7-b030-768954394623

    quote

    The overwhelming vote reflected deep political as well as economic concerns in the crowded peninsula that clings to the southern tip of Spain. Not only is Spain Gibraltar’s sole land link with another EU country: access to the EU single market was seen as critical to its financial services industry and online gambling companies. The Gibraltar government warned in the run-up to the referendum that Brexit posed an “existential threat” to the economy.

    Nine months on, that threat has yet to materialise. Investment continues to pour in, construction is booming, luxurious homes are changing hands for millions of pounds and economic growth is forecast to reach 7.5 per cent this year, in line with long-term forecasts. “We have lifted our spirits,” says Fabian Picardo, Gibraltar’s chief minister. “We have started to look beyond Brexit.”

    Mr Picardo and his fellow government ministers have had to rethink their initial damage assessment. Gibraltar’s corporations have been more forthcoming with details of their business, showing themselves to be less reliant on the EU than local leaders thought.

    “It turns out that 90 per cent of the business we do with the single market is actually done with the UK itself,” says Mr Picardo. More often than not, it was the common language and a shared legal system that mattered to local businesses, not the proximity and size of the broader EU market.

    end quote

    That is why Gib is sounding so bullish.

    And the rhetoric from Howard etc is aimed at the Spanish economy. This is a place preening itself on having “only” 18% unemployment, and is very dependent on British tourists. Lets see what happens this summer – it won’t take much to inflict some pain on them.

  25. The other point to make about the EU’s clause on Gib is that it is completely sensible.

    With the UK leaving the EU, there are specific issues about our two land borders with the EU. Both have been subject to specific clauses in the discussions. One – Northern Ireland – needs to be agreed as part of any leaving deal, before trade talks commence. This is eminently sensible, as in theoretical legal terms, the peace agreement is contingent on our EU membership.

    The other – Gibratar – has no such legal implications, and so leaving isn’t an issue, so this needn’t be resolved before trade talks commence.

    However, trade is an issue, and how the border is managed is a specific issue for Spain, and only Spain (eg not the other 26 EU nations).

    The EU clause only relates to the trade agreement, not sovereignty, and was entirely expected, with the only oddity being that May didn’t bother to have her own letter mention Gibraltar, even when asked expressly to do so by the Gibraltarian PM.

    We are deep, deep into the Alice in Wonderland world of Brexit here, where up is down and black is white.

  26. @Candy – so what on earth is the fuss about then?

  27. The idea of a strike by British tourists to harm the Spanish economy might be the most pathetic drivel I have ever seen on UKPR!

    (And doesn’t seem very related to polling)

  28. @Alec “They have the UK exactly where they want us to be, and some of the Brexit brigade are realising that they really should have thought about Gibraltar before 23rd June.”

    While I think this whole affair is frankly ridiculous, the idea that Leavers are suddenly having second thoughts because Spain doesn’t want to stick to a 300 year old treaty is, I think, a fantasy.

    @Tancred

    If we are going back in time then Spain only held Gib for 242 years and we should return it to the Berbers who held it for over 700 years in total.

  29. And @ Alec

    It’s Gibraltar
    Not Gibralter
    Not Gibratar
    :-)

  30. I would love to take you all to school on the history of Gibraltar, but in the 20th century the right of self-determination became of primary importance, so it doesn’t matter jack why Spain signed the Treaty of Utrecht.

    It is just another one of those subjects where many liberally minded Britons root for whichever side is against Britain. A bit like Brexit.

    Anyone (Alec?) who thinks Spain does anything on Gibraltar without sovereignty being first on their list of considerations is kidding themselves.

    @Tancred: British foreign policy of the relevant period of as to stop anyone country gained by dominance on the continent. While colonial wars with European powers could be iniquitous (see War of Jenkins Ear), wars against the likes of Louis XIV and Napoleon and the Kaiser were not. Whether we should have got involved is another thing. Writing “Thereafter only France was strong enough to challenge Britain”, is somewhat slanted. Only France had the power and will to dominate ate that could threaten Britain, is a better view.

    If you read Cassells History of England from 1870 you’ll find a surprisingly trenchant argument that it was all a waste of men and money.

  31. @Alec

    It’s about Spain of course. They want to take territory to distract their population from their disastrous economy.

    And we want to put pressure on their economy to help with our EU negotiations.

    The conceit in the EU is that we will buy their stuff and holiday there, no matter how the talks go.

    This is the first round in showing them how much goodwill on our part is worth, and what the absence of it means.

    Lower number of British tourists = Panicky Spanish hoteliers putting pressure on their govt during the talks.

    I have no doubt that if we see the same opportunity to target another EU economy we will do the same to them too.

  32. David Colby

    “Simple question”

    Well, it might have been – except that only an idiot imagines that there is a universal rule that applies to all such circumstances.

    If the City of London was colonised by a group of self-selecting financial criminals and foreign interests masquerading as banks and a shipping flag of convenience, involved in money laundering and avoidance of tax, …………………

  33. @joseph1832 – “..but in the 20th century the right of self-determination became of primary importance….”

    Yes – I think we are all agreed on that, as has been said many times.

    @Candy – “It’s about Spain of course. They want to take territory to distract their population from their disastrous economy.”

    No they don’t. Spain is settled on the sovereignty issue.

  34. S Thomas

    @”Your post regarding Gibraltar and the support you were showered with praise by fellow travellers shows why you are incapable of not being Partisan”

    Ahora son todos españoles

  35. P.S. This is a version of Nixon’s “Madman” Strategy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory

    The idea is to get the rest of Europe to think, “OMG, just the mention of Gibraltar in the document has made them start thinking about sending warships and starting boycotts.”

    In a continent with weak economies, annoying the crazy Brits who represent the only large source of demand in Europe should make them nervous.

    If they see actual drops in customers and trade as we fly at them one after another, so much the better.

  36. @Joseph1832 – “Anyone (Alec?) who thinks Spain does anything on Gibraltar without sovereignty being first on their list of considerations is kidding themselves.”

    Again, I think we can also all agree about this, up to a point.

    Yes, Spain would welcome the chance to rectify what they see as a historical anomaly for sure, but let’s be honest – since the 99% vote in the referendum Spain has accepted that nothing will change on this until the Gibraltarians agree. So Spain has, to all practical purposes, no designs on Gibraltar other than maintaining a historic claim to the territory. That is, in diplomatic terms, a million miles away from putting sovereignty ‘first on their list of considerations.

    We know this, because Spain joined the EU in 1986, when it effectively parked up it’s claim to Gibraltar in favour of joining the EU, so obviously this issue isn’t the most important aspect of Spanish foreign policy. The same applies now.

    The fuss about this is all from Brexiteers in the UK. Everyone else is reasonbly relaxed at it.

    What bothers the sensible amongst us is how quickly some of the Tin Hats have turned to talk of war.

  37. Candy: thanks for posting that FT piece which airs a viewpoint that the Gibraltar economy is overwhelmingly dependent on Britain and so single market membership is relatively unimportant.

    So, that’s fine then. Gibraltar being excluded from a UK-EU trade deal won’t matter much. And Spain taking much more stringent measures against smuggling won’t be a problem. Nor will a much harder border. Problem solved. Howard can stand the First Transylvanian Highlanders down again.

  38. @Candy – “The idea is to get the rest of Europe to think, “OMG, just the mention of Gibraltar in the document has made them start thinking about sending warships and starting boycotts.””

    Again, you are laughably off course here.

    No one in the EU has the slightest doubt that the UK won’t go to war over Gibraltar – if nothing else, because no one is threatening it’s sovereignty. To think otherwise is to be utterly bereft of any sense of reality.

  39. Eyes down for the next installment of that popular soap opera-Plucky Greeks vs The German Jackboot.

    https://moneymorning.com/2017/03/30/showdown-between-greece-lenders-could-cause-euro-to-plummet/

  40. @Colin
    ‘” All Tusk has done is state the bleedin’ obvious –”

    Was it “bleedin obvious” that Tusk would draw up Brexit negotiating guidelines for the EU which specifically introduced what you describe as “legitimate” Spanish territorial designs on Gibraltar into something to which they do not relate?

    By the way-how do feel about Spain’s attitude to Morrocan “legitimate” claims to Ceuta and Melilla ?’

    I don’t really know where to start with this as you have introduced so many straw men!

    1) I clearly state that this concerns what SPAIN ‘considers its legitimate sovereign interests in respect of Gibraltar’ – I make the point that whether I or you think they are legitimate is irrelevant – the point is that Spain does. So why do you say that I ‘describe these as legitimate’?

    2) I am talking about sovereign interests, not territorial claims – these are absolutely not the same thing (although a territorial claim is a small subset of sovereign interests); Spain is likely to have a whole batch of concerns about Gibraltar many of which are not about territorial acquisition. For example, Spain might object to a small tax haven on its border having unfettered access to its financial markets?

    3) Melilla and Ceuta; Is Spain inconsistent and hypocritical in its approach to Gib v Ceuta/Melilla? Absolutely – but that IS NOT THE POINT! The point is that any new relationship between the UK and EU will require Spanish approval and Spain is indicating, quite clearly, that it will look closely at proposals as they impact its relationship with Gib before it gives that approval.

    Why on earth would that be a surprise? I’m genuinely bemused….

  41. Although Alec has highlighted the the Gibraltar question is not about sovereignty, as the discussion continued, by UN definitions Gibraltar is a colony.

  42. Candy 1.59 Re: Spain

    ‘This is a place preening itself on having “only” 18% unemployment,’

    You said it was 20% this morning, if I remember rightly. That’s a good rate of improvement for any economy!

    Alec 2.03

    Once again, you are to be applauded for your sensible contribution amidst what can only be described as the rantings of war-mongerers.
    Is this fuss over Gibraltar not similar to how the First World War was started? Do these people never ever learn anything from history? Is not the avoidance of such bellicosity precisely the very reason for which the EEC/EU was formed?
    I am amazed at, and immensely grateful for, the calm response of the Spanish to all this hoohaa.

    Jasper22 2-30

    Yes, why waste your time trading and building common cause with democratic countries when you could out and about doing great deals with slaveowning people like the Saudis? Is that really ‘Batting for Blighty’? Or is it just another example of a government which couldn’t care less about those who are at the receiving end of British made Saudi weapons? (not that the UK is the only supplier of such weapons, of course, but hey ho….)

  43. @Tancred “Silly comment, as by that argument Britain could be returned to the Romans etc.
    What matters is the ethnicity of the people, which in the case of Gibraltar is indisputably Spanish. This is the key difference between this territory and the Falklands, where the people are mostly British.”

    I was pointing out the stupidity of harkening back to a time 300 years ago by harkening back to a time even further back. So you rather made my point. In any case this has everything to do with self-determination and not ethnicity.

  44. POLL ALERT!!

    Britain Elects? @britainelects 17m17 minutes ago
    More
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 11% (+2)
    UKIP: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (-)
    SNP: 5% (-)
    ………

    The SNP must be polling around 50% in Scotland.

    LibDems, okay they are up but it’s still not enough considering the current political climate.

  45. This should cheer the Lib/Dems up for the local elections…

    Mike Smithson? @MSmithsonPB 24h24 hours ago
    More
    Full Rallings & Thrasher forecast national equivalent vote compared with 2013 is Con 31% (+5), Lab 29% (nc), LD 22% (+9) UKIP 10% (-12).

    And as we can see, what is happening at local level doesn’t seem to be translating into the same sort of juicy VI for the LibDems nationally.

    Not bad for the Tories, Labour flatlining and UKIP imploding.

    So, it just goes to show local elections can’t be used as a barometer for what is happening nationally..This poll confirms this.

  46. I spend about a quarter of my time living in Spain and I’m at home there at the moment, so it’s interesting that some posters here see it as some sort of basket-case economy that can be brought to its knees by a Sun-inspiired boycot by British tourists.

    Come and live here for a while and you will see that it’s a truly vibrant economy and society. Economic growth has been higher than the UK’s for the last 4 years; job creation is booming (500,000 new jobs last year); the quality of infrastructure, and public services, is light years ahead of the UK’s make-do-and-mend philosophy. Prices are much lower, there is much more local sourcing and yet Spain is doing brilliantly in international trade. It’s trade balance is broadly neutral – as opposed to the UK’s ginormous deficit – and, for instance, it’s Europe’s second biggest car producer (around 2.5m cars a year, against 1.7 for the UK. And that’s for a country only two-thirds the UK’s size).

    Despite all that, the likes of Candy and S Thomas prefer to see Spain as dependant upon UK largesse. Well, dream on, girls.

  47. Somerjohn

    All sounds lovely.

    You’d think the Gib people would be banging on the door to be let into such a wonderful country….wouldn’t you?

  48. All this sabre rattling from Tourist boycotts to Taskforce 2 reminds me of why I turned Against Nuclear Deterrents.

    When I was studying the theory at Uni I came across an interview which I think was with Kissenger during the MacNamarra period.

    He laid out how it works and the theory of escalation and how it could contain a conflict from either going Nuclear or getting beyond battlefield use.

    All very well as was his outline of how the Us would match a Soviet response and then slowly step to the next level excreting a bit more pressure to make the Soviets back down.

    Then the killer section. He was asked two things; was he sure the Soviets would back down and if they didn’t would the US. His answers….Yes and No!

    At which point the whole thing fell apart.

    For Deterrance to work you need two rational players, both of whom can make clear logical decisions. Kissenger knew, understood and believed that. But his believe that the Soviets would always back down first and assertion that the US never would wasn’t rational.

    If there was no point at which we would back down he was effectively saying that we’d rather have global nuclear devastation than accept defeat and that’s insane not rational.

    Equally the thought that the other guy might be as willing to die as us didn’t register because he felt we were just superior.

    The idea of Deterrence, like self regulating Financial Markets that won’t crash, is based on actors functioning in a rational way in line with the theory, but in the real world people do daft things and doing daft things with nuclear warheads is not a good idea.

    Boycott Spanish holidays, sure go ahead, and if in an equally childish way some Spanish take their anger out on retired expats… Then what.

    Do we think it through before hand and say, maybe a boycott could have unintended consequences and lead to dangerous escalation that causes unnecessary harm, or do we just get tough and when they match it just notch it up further till they build a Trump style wall with Wind turbines on top along the main runway at Gibraltar effectively sealing the border.

    Do we go to War… We have an Army of 80k, they have 75k, we have Typhoons and Tornados, they have Typhoons and F-18’s, we have 200 Challenger 2’s they have 270 Leopard 2E’s. We have a bigger Navy, but they have a land border with both Gibraltar and France and Portugal

    We are militarily stronger but can only project a tiny fraction of it.

    From an fairly innocuous mention of Gibraltar Brexiteers seem to want to man the barricades with little or no thought as to how far this might go and what it might cost.

    No wonder on the continent they are shaking their heads in disbelief. I am not sure what it is they are stifling, Yawns or Giggles!

    Peter.

  49. J22: “You’d think the Gib people would be banging on the door to be let into such a wonderful country….wouldn’t you?”

    No, I wouldn’t think that. The people of Gibraltar like the status quo for the same reason that CI and IOM don’t want to become part of the UK. All of these territories do very well out of their offshore status. In Gibraltar’s case, it’s online gambling, tobacco smuggling and lax company registration and taxation that underpin its economy.

    However, given your view of the UK, perhaps you should be asking why Gibraltar isn’t “banging on the door to be let into such a wonderful country.”

  50. SOMERJOHN
    “I spend about a quarter of my time living in Spain and I’m at home there at the moment, so it’s interesting that some posters here see it as some sort of basket-case economy that can be brought to its knees by a Sun-inspiired boycot by British tourists”
    __________

    I voted for Brexit and still want to see us leave the EU project but I don’t like the tone coming from the UK towards Spain, nationally and also on this forum.

    But we’ve been here before with Scotland. The same smears and sneering at how the UK government could bring Scotland to its knees and so on.

    It’s this English obsession that we think we are better than everyone else and everyone should look up to us. I can honestly say having lived in Scotland for 12 years and now living back in England, there is nothing superior about the English from a Scottish perspective. In fact, it’s probably quite the opposite.

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