YouGov’s regular voting intention poll for the Times has topline figures of CON 43%, LAB 25%, LDEM 11%, UKIP 10%. The Conservative lead remains strong and third place continues to bounce back and forth between the Lib Dems and UKIP (I expect they are actually about even and we’re just seeing normal random sample variation).

On best Prime Minister May leads Jeremy Corbyn by 53% to 13%. This is May’s highest figure since her honeymoon, Jeremy Corbyn’s lowest ever and the 38 point gap is the biggest we’ve recorded so far. This is the first poll since the attack on Parliament and Prime Ministers sometimes do see a boost to their reputation if they are seen to have handled an emergency with confidence so it could be connected, or the timing could be pure co-incidence.

The reason for the huge gap is Corbyn’s low support among Labour voters. Typically people answer these questions along partisan lines – Tory voters pick the Tory leader, Labour voters pick the Labour leader, the best PM lead ends up being similar to the voting intention lead. At the moment 94% of current Tory voters think that May would make the better Prime Minister, but only 46% of current Labour voters say Corbyn would (15% say May, 39% say “Not sure”). Among people who voted Labour at the last election Corbyn’s position is even worse, only 27% say he would make the better Prime Minister, 29% say Theresa May. Full tabs are here.

Given today is Article 50 day, I’ve also written a much longer piece over on the YouGov website bringing together lots of the recent YouGov research on Brexit – you can find that here.


743 Responses to “YouGov/Times – CON 43, LAB 25, LD 11, UKIP 10”

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  1. John B

    I would recommend

    Shostakovich: Complete Symphonies, Various artists/ Jansons
    (EMI, 10 CDs)

    I have heard most of these recordings and they are to a high standard. It is all a matter of taste of course. I don’t have all the symphonies myself but I do have most of them as individual recordings. Love the 5th and 10th, both oustanding music.

  2. Carfrew

    The 7th (Leningrad) is not to everybodies taste but that “deadly” repitition of the main theme tends to raise the hairs on the back of the neck if you think of the context.

  3. @ohn B

    “Of course time is limited and taking on board information is often a matter of priorities. But if someone who knows about something writes about it and you disagree with the evidence presented or the conclusion reached then either you go away and do some digging around on your own account or you accept that what has been said has to stand. I do not enter into internal debate regarding Wales, for example.”

    ————

    If you continue yourself to Scots affairs you will always be liable to know more and be able to castigate others for knowing less. Feel free to chat about politics where you don’t have the upper hand and might learn summat John!! Promise not to accuse you of insult or offending an entire nation if you don’t know summat!!

  4. @John B

    “But when GB or the UK is being referred to then I believe a Scottish perspective may be vital if the whole is to be understood. Idem for Northern Ireland. How people can claim to speak for the UK when they seem to know nothing about Northern Ireland (see the recent elections there and dismissive comments made about them on this very site!) is astonishing to me.”

    ————–

    Dunno about you John but I don’t claim to ‘speak for the UK’, I don’t think many of us do. We just express our opinions and see what peeps think, does it stock up etc.

    I can see you are adding a new crime to the list for whenever one has the temerity to differ in view: the heinous crime of “speaking for the UK”

    (S. Thomas must be right, there must be a grievance factory somewhere…)

  5. Carfrew

    Thanks for the personal memories, great music can really blow you away.

    Two pieces always make me cry

    Gorecki’s 3rd Symphony because of the feeling of hope that emerges from the horror of the context, and the Finale of Gounod’s Faust in the recordingI I have with Corelli as Faust, Ghiaurov as Mephastopheles and Sutherland as Marguerite. Singing so beautiful it hurts.

  6. S Thomas: “Classic misreading of the british by the EU.”

    What are you referring to as a classic misreading of the British?

    If you’re talking about Gibraltar, it seems to be that you are imagining some sort of EU threat to Gibraltar, and then painting that figment of your imagination as a “classic misreading.”

    The EU has said that it’s up to the UK and Spain to sort out that quarrel: the EU isn’t getting involved. By removing Gibraltar from the negotiations, it eliminates the possibility that Spain will veto any eventual agreement because it includes Gibraltar.

    So an entirely sensible, pragmatic decision that simplifies negotiations by removing a potential peripheral distraction which is better dealt with bilaterally, has to be painted by some as a dastardly threat.

    You said above that the EU “despises us and laughs at us in equal measure.” I don’t think that’s true, which is surprising as some seem determined to give them grounds for doing so.

  7. @ToH

    “The 7th (Leningrad) is not to everybodies taste but that “deadly” repitition of the main theme tends to raise the hairs on the back of the neck if you think of the context.”

    ————

    Oh God, doesn’t it? The way it just builds and builds as the advance gets closer. And those four notes are a recurring motif in his work aren’t they? Kind of his signature. I love all that…

  8. @THE OTHER HOWARD

    “Gorecki’s 3rd Symphony because of the feeling of hope that emerges from the horror of the context, and the Finale of Gounod’s Faust in the recordingI I have with Corelli as Faust, Ghiaurov as Mephastopheles and Sutherland as Marguerite. Singing so beautiful it hurts.”

    ————

    I’m not very familiar with Gorecki, Howard, but I shall check it out forthwith. Thanks for the heads up!!…

  9. Just a view on English/Welsh/Scottish history from a different point of view.
    Sources:
    1. formal academic studies. Usually needing good knowledge of cited papers etc before you start to learn from the latest. Beyond the usual scope of those on the Clapham/Carmarthen/Kilmarnock omnibus.
    2. General history books, radio and TV documentaries, articles in magazines, novels, plays, films.

    I group 2 together, recognising that some are more concerned than others to give a balanced view, because they all share one common (and I think important) factor.
    They all have about ten times as many customers in England than in Scotland.
    In particular, Candy’s shot at the Welsh take on the Tudors (submitted to a publisher or broadcaster) would probably be regarded as interesting to (many of?) the 3million Welsh, some (how few?) of the 53million in England (note the style, as there are many now in England with I suspect little interest in the Tudors) and perhaps some of the 5million Scots.
    On the other hand, if the BBC put on a series of Shakespeare’s history plays, the Scots could watch the Scottish play, but there is a whole series of English history plays (plus Othello), while the Welsh might lay some small claim to the Briton King Lear (from the English midlands).
    Inherent racial bias in such a BBC choice, and in the writings of Britain’s greatest playwright. I do hope no-one makes an issue of that, suggesting censorship. Market forces prevailed in 1600, as now.

  10. How did Britain get hold of Gibraltar? Same way as the Spanish, of course. We’ve now had it for longer than they did.

  11. Dave

    I agree with you that, inevitably, few know much about history – just as they know little about music or literature or theoretical physics for that matter.

    Markets are, however, created. It doesn’t just accidentally happen that one product (or theory, or interpretation) becomes dominant.

    In the field of history (or more correctly, myth) the constructed national story – with its heroes (the occasional heroine), noble deeds, winning against incredible odds, the virtues of the people (and their uniqueness) are universal.

    Every country does it – especially during times of crisis – and it was especially the case in the 19th century.

    The “British” chose to make the Empire the unifying myth – and that worked pretty well until it disintegrated in the mid 20th century leaving each component nation to have their own.

    Pretty well a classic of political incompetence, I’d have thought.

  12. week1 to GB

    what a week. TM can be well pleased with her work:

    1. EU falls into the trap of Gibraltar. By even mentioning it in their document with reference to Spain they allowed it to be spun against them. Naive. What they said does not matter but how it is reported in the UK does;
    2. Voters in the light of the above will be more likely to support the government.
    3. She has managed to link security and defence with Brexit. They can now deny the link but the more they deny the more everybody knows there is a link;
    4. Launched an attack with America on serial Nato underpayers. I have no doubt this is co-ordinated and shows a sneaky and underhand approach. well done. The next step is for the UK and America to ask all members of Nato to submit their defence budgets for scrutiny to Nato. I would very much like Fallon to be delegated this onerous task of going around Euro capitals telling them they have to spend more. Whilst there he might mention what will happen to their budgets when the uK ceases to contribute to the EU budget. Not that the two are linked of course.
    4. The EU concede that talks about trade need not wait for the expiry of the 2 year period as some irreconcilables had suggested. Concession by EU
    5. And Finally, The Grievance factory staff letter to the Managing Director gets lost in the post. No need to reply until 2022.

  13. Joseph

    “We’ve now had it for longer than they did.”

    That’s what I mean about myths which ignore actuality, but which folk think is history.

    Even ignoring the years prior to the Moorish conquest, Gibraltar was Spanish for 406 years prior to 1713.

    It has been British for a mere 304.

  14. old nat

    schoolboy error on Gib i am afraid. The spanish Crown only took possession of gib by decree on the 2/12/1501

    so spanish for 212 years but british for 304. Sorry and your point was?

  15. OldNat – “It doesn’t just accidentally happen that one product (or theory, or interpretation) becomes dominant.”

    No, it;s not an accident, but on the other hand the “victim” countries had a hand in their own cultural demise because of decisions they made.

    Language does play a part. England and Wales both revere Elizabeth I because she saved both Welsh and English (within a decade of her religious settlement making English the dominant language of the church in England there was an explosion of pamphlets, textbooks, polemics,plays and poetry in English). Without her England would be a backwater whose literature was on the same level as Croatia’s and Welsh would be extinct.

    But why didn’t the Scottish church and Scottish kings do the same for Scots-gaelic?

    And in Ireland, by clinging to Catholicism, they had all their church services in Latin right up till the 1960s. Nobody forced that choice on them, they chose it. The Catholic church wasn’t interested in a bible in gaelic, and despite a century of the irish state trying to revive gaelic, only 7% speak it as a first language.

    That’s a result of choices they made, not us.

  16. @Somerjohn:

    Whilst the EU could take a more extreme position, it is not really being neutral. The main Article 50 agreement does not allow for vetos.

    A key part of Gibraltar’s position is the large number of people who currently use EU free movement rights with respect to Gibraltar. There are Spaniards who cross the border to work on the Rock. Gibraltarians who live in Spain most of the week (exercise of EU law rights), and cross back for work.

    This is all part and parcel of dealing with the position of those who have been exercising EU law rights by moving or working in another country. Spain do not want this dealt this, as they want to arbitrarily close the border.

    We have also heard about the UK must live up to its obligations. Well, Spain has an agreement with the UK not to obstruct the border any more – and it breaks that routinely.

    I trust you are not one of those Remainers who never see anything remiss in anything done that to the disadvantage of the UK or its territories.

  17. @Oldnat

    I am not convinced that the EU can do much to alleviate the likely difficulties caused to Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic by Brexit.

    When Brexit happens the UK will become a “third country” and will be subject to whatever EU regulations that involves. That will include customs checks at EU borders. The EU is unlikely to change how it treats any “third country”. Special treatment for one “third country” is likely to encourage requests for more favourable treatment from other “third countries”.

    Here is a link to a discussion paper that identifies the possibilities. It was produced prior to knowing we are to have a “hard” Brexit. You might find it of interest.

    http://pure.qub.ac.uk/portal/files/123024606/Brexit_and_the_UK_Ireland_Border_Discussion_Paper.pdf

    HARD BREXIT
    Pros
    • Addresses primary EU-focused concerns of Leave voters
    • Greater control over immigration
    • Clean break, rewriting rules
    Cons
    • Most economic models predict that this will result in greatest trade destruction (the UK’s and NI’s largest single
    trade partner) due to reduced integration with EU policies
    ? Expected reduction in bilateral trade flows between NI and ROI
    ? Likely to cost the UK economy more than is gained from lower contributions to the EU budget;
    ? Stresses on the Union because of imposing overall will on the wishes of different constituent parts;
    ? Although policy differentiation between the UK’s devolved regions may not increase, differential impact of Brexit
    on economic and political conditions is likely
    ? The growth of price distortions and resulting black market growth would undermine both consumption tax and
    import revenues collected by both states.

  18. @Oldnat “the constructed national story – with its heroes etc is universal.”
    That is probably true, but my point was that in Britain the English national story prevails not because it is English rather than Scottish, nor because it is more accurate, but simply because their are many more people interested and prepared to buy it, compared to a Scottish or a Welsh version, or to carefully considered historical accuracy.

    Similarly to Candy: It’s not historical events that determine the version of history that most people adopt so much as what is written or performed today to sell. What is chosen to sell depends much more on publishers than on authors. I guess a view of British history from the Isle of Man might be free from much bias, but would have to be extremely well written and push its ‘no bias’ line hard before most would even look at it.
    I had a young assistant once with extensive knowledge of Tudor times and royal intrigue, with much factually correct detail, her slant derived entirely from Jean Plaidy’s books.
    As Wiki says of Eleanor Hibbert “Her popular works of historical fiction are appreciated by readers and critics alike for their accuracy, quality of writing, and attention to detail” (and are therefore seen as a true account.)
    As Churchill said “History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it” which he did, very well. (though you won’t find anything about Enigma in the six volumes of ‘The Second World War’.)

  19. Joseph1832

    Sorry, I’m struggling to see the overall import of your post re Gibraltar.

    You seem to be saying that Gib is currently highly dependent on EU freedoms – freedom of workers to cross the border and also (presumably, as you don’t mention this) single market membership to facilitate all the gambling etc sites which can tap into the whole EU market.

    So, Gibraltar has a whole lot to lose. It’s your next step I struggle to follow: “I trust you are not one of those Remainers who never see anything remiss in anything done that to the disadvantage of the UK or its territories.”

    Um, well, I can see that, as you indicate, Brexit is potentially disastrous for Gibraltar and therefore something that is “done that to the disadvantage of the UK or its territories.” But how is that the fault of the EU? The territory has done very well riding on the coat-tails of the UK’s EU membership. But now it will be reliant on the goodwill and loyalty of the UK. I hope it goes well.

  20. Every time I start to consider whether Brexit was the right thing, the EU do something to firm up my resolve. Raising Gibraltar is a disgraceful political piece of stirring, clearly lobbied hard by Spain. Only one thing should determine whether they want Spainish involvement, and that’s the people of Gibraltar. And let’s add to this Mr Juncker who apparently says we have no assets in the EU after £500bn paid in. We are well shot of all this.

  21. Rich

    That’s a bit like a member of the Golf Club storming out demanding the 15th Hole in exchange for all of his membership fees over the years.

  22. The Other Howard,
    “. I think the triggering of A50 upset the diehard Remainers a great deal”

    Honestly, article 50 is neither here nor there. There seems to be a campaign underway to argue that pointing out the dangers of Brexit is unpatriotic. It is rather the same debate as at the referendum, where remain tried to appeal to statistics, while leave tried to capture emotion.

    What has caused this outburst is probably not so much article 50, but the poll this thread is about. The subtext is that Leave are losing ground in their popular support. Not much, but perceptibly.

    Sea Change,
    I remember Powell and my dad was a fan. It would be intereating to know what Powell thought about the situation now. Not just the EU, but the real loss of sovereignty every nation has suffered through international agreements of every kind. Leave are not proposing we drop these. In fact they are proposing we make new ones with nations everywhere. All of them surrender sovereignty in terms Powell would criticise, but pooled sovereignty is how the world works now. We no longer have the military might to impose our will.

  23. Good evening all from a dry mild Stevenage.

    CANDY

    Oi oi oi oi it’s Scots Gaelic. The “a” comes before the “e”.

    My Grandfather is from Aros on Mull and he’s a fluent Gaelic speaker although I don’t think it gets him very far living in Somerset. He would be appalled at your spelling of his native tongue.

    Scottish Gaelic was flourishing up until the late 1800s then came the Education (Scotland) Act 1872 which outlawed teaching through the medium of Gaelic in the classroom and the teaching of Gaelic itself.

    I’m sure the language would have still faced the same demise even if Scottish Kings previously had secured the language.

    Sticking with the Scottish theme, Aberdeen 7-0 up at Dundee!!

  24. @SAM Thanks for that reasoned and low key description of the Cons of Hard Brexit. Even those not too impressed by the performance of economic modellers are more likely to think about unwelcome consequences than when those are presented stridently as obvious things that ‘you fools’ can’t see.

    I’m fairly sure that the government is trying for a brexit which avoids or limits those unpleasant consequences, especially the financial ones. Whether that can be done and yet “address primary EU-focused concerns of Leave voters” remains to be seen. But many Leave voters would accept some economic hit as a price worth paying, with antipathy to the EU perhaps based on the sentences attributed to J.C. Monnet
    “Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”
    That is not included in his top 15 quotes and looks a bit unlikely at the moment.
    http://www.azquotes.com/author/36946-Jean_Monnet
    but such falsehoods about EU aims are harder to hide now.

  25. @SAM Thanks for that reasoned and low key description of the Cons of Hard Brexit.
    The rest of my comment has gone into moderation for reasons I cannot imagine, but I thought you ought to have its beginning.

  26. @DANNY

    Enoch Powell was an old fashioned imperialist. He walked all night around London when India was given independence. That’s how upset he was. It’s ironic that he was so opposed to immigration when he was chiefly responsible for bringiing West Indian nurses to this country.

  27. @Alan,

    Or a bit like a member cancelling and the club asking for 10 years further membership fees and a large contribution for a second course and hotel complex..

  28. Dave

    My point wasn’t about the dominance of English history in broadcasts etc from those who learned that story.

    That seems inevitable, as a consequence of the British State being thoroughly incompetent in creating a common set of myths for all of the UK – including inculcating those brought up in England.

    It’s not a problem for me. It should be a matter of regret for those who wanted to see the UK having a sense of unity of purpose.

    That the (largely English) folk who made the decisions to dismantle “British institutions” and to replace effective propaganda with “The Great British Bake Off” makes them the “victims” of the incompetence of their predecessors.

    That they replicate the incompetence now is not really surprising.

  29. @RICH

    “Every time I start to consider whether Brexit was the right thing, the EU do something to firm up my resolve. Raising Gibraltar is a disgraceful political piece of stirring, clearly lobbied hard by Spain. Only one thing should determine whether they want Spainish involvement, and that’s the people of Gibraltar. And let’s add to this Mr Juncker who apparently says we have no assets in the EU after £500bn paid in. We are well shot of all this.”

    Huge storm in a teacup. Gibraltar is ‘small potatoes’ in the grand scheme of things, and the mention of it was only at the insistence of the Spanish. It’s not meant to be taken very seriously and should not be taken very seriously. My take on it is just needling or pinpricking, all for show and nothing else.
    We have paid a lot in but we have also received a lot back in the form of EU development grants, farming subsidies and much else besides.

  30. Richo

    Agreed, we should not be on the hook for FUTURE liabilities.

    Asking said member to pay the outstanding bar tab wouldn’t be an unreasonable request though. Now, it’ll be a bit more complex to determine exactly which liabilities are current liabilities and which are the future liabilities than a golf club.

    I’m sure there will be a lot of negotiations about which liabilities we’ve already signed ourselves up for and equally which investments the EU has committed itself to providing in the UK.

  31. S Thomas,
    “I know this sounds ridiculous but we should end negotiations now and prepare for WTO. it is the only language they understand.”

    no, what it sounds like is that Leave believe the will in the Uk to leave is crumbing and they need a concerted anti-EU campaign to shore it up. I was listening to some TV discussions recently, and if they have their audiences balanced, leave are losing.

    Life must be very strange for May.

    The conclusion is that the leave campaigners fear Brexit may be cancelled.

  32. Tancred
    “It’s ironic that he was so opposed to immigration when he was chiefly responsible for bringiing [sic] West Indian nurses to this country.”

    This is a common calumny. His biography quotes Sir George Godber, Chief Medical Officer during Powell’s time as minister of Health as saying the allegation was “bunk…absolute rubbish. There was no such policy”

    G’night all.

  33. You start to fear for the outcome of Brexit in terms of getting a good deal, when the same people who are urging Remain voters to get behind Britain, go into apoplexy every time the EU makes a statement they don’t like.

    What are the chances of a success when one side is talking about walking away two days into a two year negotiations!

    Peter.

  34. @DANNY

    “The conclusion is that the leave campaigners fear Brexit may be cancelled.”

    Obviously that would be my dream.

    It’s strange, looking at Boris Johnson, how unconcerned he is about all this. He seems to be taking it all in his stride. My impression is that he would be ready to change sides if Brexit was going belly-up; he was never a hard-line leaver, he only joined the bandwagon because he correctly sussed the mood of the nation and saw an opportunity. He is clever, I’ll give him that.

  35. Pete B

    Odd that you see enhancing the staffing of NHS England as a “calumny”.

    Better that people suffer and die for lack of care?

  36. Peter Cairns

    Well it is dreadfully unfair, they have coordinated, planned and set out a coherent position, we have Boris!

  37. Peter Cairns,
    “What are the chances of a success when one side is talking about walking away two days into a two year negotiations”

    I am surprisingly bullish on this. Whichever EU chap said the other day that in his opinion the best deal for the UK would be EU membership, and failing that EFTA. These attempts to halt negotiations before they have even begun can only mean there is a fear we might end with one of the good deals.

    Tancred,
    “It’s strange, looking at Boris Johnson, how unconcerned he is about all this.”
    I noticed that too, but your pointing it out did make me laugh for the absurdity of it. He looks far happier now than when he was told Leave had won the referendum, when he could only be said to appear horrified.

  38. @ALAN

    I believe that the position of the EU is that we are liable for what we have already committed to. In the same way that, if you sign a contract to contribute towards the construction of a clubhouse for a golf club, and then you leave the club, you still have to pay towards it.
    It’s pretty simple really.

  39. I’m a big Shostakovich fan too – perhaps psephology and dissident cacophonous music are associated

    Personally I listen most to the 11th Symphony and the string quartets. And I like the Jansen recordings though Previn’s 5th is a soft spot as it introduced me to his music

    On English understanding Scots my view is that like the Russians the English are blinkered by their imperialist past and unwittingly fail to understand the constituents of their Union in consequence – they fall into a’ Union/ Empire knows best’ syndrome and find it difficult to distinguiish between English/ British Empire Russia . Soviet Union – they are one and the same to them whereas for the constituents they are at best ‘subscribed to club’ / Nation

  40. This is what got me into Shostakovich – a great 1978 documentary on the anarchist/ Marxist author B Traven (Treasure of the Sierra Madre) which used the 5th symphony as background music and was in my humble opinion the best documentary I’ve seen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J64Dhd1cxMQ

  41. @OLDNAT

    Powell was a much better politician than people give him credit for, and he was not a racist. Unfortunately he was quoted out of context more often than not, as the media likes to do this, and he soon became a demonised figure. In reality he was an exceptionally intelligent man who simply had a very old fashioned view of Britain’s place in the world. Compared to people like Gove and Farage he was a giant.

  42. Peter

    “You start to fear for the outcome of Brexit in terms of getting a good deal, when the same people who are urging Remain voters to get behind Britain, go into apoplexy every time the EU makes a statement they don’t like.”

    If these people were actually negotiating with our EU partners, you would be right to fear the consequences.

    Fortunately, no matter how inexperienced the UK negotiators are, they can’t be that rubbish.

  43. @BARDIN1

    My taste in classical music ends with the late romantic period. Shostakovich was basically a modernist, though tinged with touches of lingering romanticism here and there. I do like his 5th symphony, but many of his other works are too ‘industrial’ sounding to me.
    Now, Rachmaninov, that’s something else.

  44. Tancred

    I was making no comment about Powell’s ability as a politician.

    I was referring to Pete B’s labelling of the story that he brought in West Indian nurses to the NHS as a “calumny”.

    It may or may not be accurate, but why would anyone consider that bringing in additional staffing to the NHS as a slur?

    Or is it somehow a “slur” that they weren’t white?

    Not a comment on Powell, but those who think either of these would be other than a good thing possibly needs o consider the labels that would accurately be attached to holding such views.

  45. @BARDIN1

    I completely agree with your view that Russia and Britain are very similar in some ways. Both imperial powers, victors in WW2, both seeing their empires melt away after WW2. Britain’s loss of empire was America’s gain in overseas markets, and Russia’s loss of the Soviet empire has, to some extent, been the EU’s gain.
    This is why both Britain and Russia re not really European nations. One is tied to far flung outposts of its former empire, scattered around the world, while the other is a vast Eurasian land mass, neither truly European nor Asian.

  46. Tancred

    I agree that is their position.

    Negotiations will come down to the technicalities of us trying to put as much into the category of “I was only in the meeting when we all agreed to build the new clubhouse and didn’t actually sign up to anything.”

    I suspect that side of things will become very dry and technical and a lot of the discussions will be about timescales rather than trying “Ten for that? you must be mad…”

  47. On Shostakovich

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65cM2t8XPL0&feature=youtu.be

    To understand the narrative, Russian is needed, but the music is just great.

  48. Tancred,
    “Compared to people like Gove and Farage he was a giant.”

    Oldnat,
    “Fortunately, no matter how inexperienced the UK negotiators are, they can’t be that rubbish.”

    So exactly who got us into this mess?

  49. Danny

    “So exactly who got us into this mess?”

    Probably not the civil servants who will do their best to dig the UK out of the worst of the mess – and who will be doing most of the actual negotiation.

  50. @OLDNAT

    Pete B is entitled to his views, odd though they are. I do think that it rather controversial in the 1960s to bring in nurses from the West Indies, though I suppose the wages were not high enough to attract people from the old (white) Commonwealth.
    Indeed, the 1948 British Nationality Act was passed to make it easier for Commonwealth citizens to come to the UK after Canada passed its own citizenship act. The possibility of non-whites taking advantage of this new law was never seriously considered, despite the obvious need for labour after WW2 and the relatively low wages that did not attract people from Australia, Canada, etc.

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