ICM have a new poll in the Sun on Sunday with topline figures of CON 39%(+1), LAB 29%(-1), LDEM 9%(+1), UKIP 14%(-1), GRN 4%(nc). This is the first poll conducted since Theresa May became Prime Minister, so may be expected to show a typical “new leader” bounce in government support (when Brown took over in 2007 and Major took over in 1990 the governing party went from being behind to having double-digit leads). The Tory lead is up a little, but not outside the normal margin of error, that said ICM’s previous poll already had an eight point Tory lead, so they were already at a high base.

ICM also did some hypothetical voting intention questions asking about varous leader match-ups. A control question, asking how people would vote if Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn were still leader at the general election has voting intention figures of CON 43%, LAB 28%, suggesting either a significant positive effect from mentioning May or a negative effect from mentioning Corbyn.

Asking how people would vote if Owen Smith or Angela Eagle were Labour leader does not offer any improvement. With Eagle the figures would be CON 43%, LAB 26%. With Smith the figures would be CON 42%, LAB 27%. I should add a heavy caveat here – hypothetical polls like this are popular in advance of leadership elections, but how useful they are is a different question. Respondents don’t necessarily know what the alternative candidates stand for, what they will do or announce, how they may or may not change the party. I add those caveats when the alternative leaders are well known to the public, like Gordon Brown, Boris Johnson and so on. In the case of someone who is as unknown to the general public as Owen Smith, I expect most don’t know who he is or what he even looks like. Nevertheless, the figures will be influential in the debate – rightly or wrongly Corbyn’s supporters within the Labour party will now be able to say there is no polling evidence that his rivals would do any better.

Note that ComRes also have a poll in the Independent/Sunday Mirror, but they are not currently publishing any voting intention figures while they review methods.


481 Responses to “ICM/Sun on Sunday – CON 39, LAB 29, LD 9, UKIP 14”

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  1. DAVID CARROD

    Yes, having talked around to friends and neighbour’s who voted “Leave” most seemed to have a clear idea of why they voted leave, along the lines of my own view. However, I suspect we are just an age group or social group who tended to vote leave. Most of my friends and neighbour’s would describe themselves as socially conservative
    and fit most of the research criteria discussed earlier, except they are mainly middle or upper middle class and many have degrees.

  2. BIGFATRON

    Yes, I heard that as well, and don’t see how it would work.

  3. Valerie

    “Ok so if an independent Scotland stays in or rejoins the Eu, it will not be obliged to join the Euro. In which case Scotland’s currency will continue to be Stirling?”

    My own guess would be that that would be most unlikely, but I could be wrong.

  4. ToH @ 2.28 pm

    As the UK government and the southern Irish government have already said that there will be no new controls on the NI/Eire border, I can`t see any possibility that there will be controls on the Scottish/England border.

    It would be an enormous inconvenience for the 100,000 plus who commute each day across it. And greatly resented by many more who travel cross-nations to visit relatives or for holidays. And what about ambulances taking patients to their hospitals e.g. in Carlisle.

    This was an illusion of southern English Leavers. In rea A vote to Leave actually meant a vote to lose English control of half the country`s borders.

  5. There is no border check between Eire and mainland UK either.

  6. ROLAND HAINES
    Scotland: Would you rather be in the EU or the UK?

    Why the hurry?

    Until/unless May publishes the timetable the 3 Brexiteers are working to, us hoi polloi certainly won’t.

  7. Sorry, to be precise, the Uk doesn’t check inward travel from Eire and neither checks at ports.

  8. BIGFATRON
    I guess one consequence would be that Scotland, like RoI, would not be part of Schengen?

    Which in turn suggests that Brokenshire either hasn’t a clue or has been briefed to run an EEA deal including very significant freedom of movement up the flagpole to see who salutes.

  9. DAVID CARROD

    When Tsipras called his referendum, the Greek people knew that they were voting for retaining the Euro and abandoning austerity.

    Didn’t quite work out that way.

    Currently stocked up on popcorn.

  10. BBC reporting on Brokenshire:
    The secretary of state said both the UK and Irish governments were opposed to a return to border check points between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    Mr Brokenshire, who campaigned to remain in the EU, also said that after the referendum vote people need to unite and respect the outcome of the vote.

    He told reporters he would use his job to advocate the best interests of Northern Ireland at the heart of government.

    See http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-36824749

    Could be either of the options I suggested in my previous post.

  11. The problem with referenda is that they treat sovereignty as something that you have or have not. Any arrangement between Scotland and England or the UK and the EU is going to pool, limit or otherwise diminish the sovereignty of the parties to some extent. Personally I don’t see how we can survive without such arrangements and think that something like Cooper2802’s solution has quite a lot to recommend it. Such deals have to be negotiated and the logical solutions to giving them legitimacy would be more on the lines of trade’s union negotiations when people keep on going back to the membership to see if a deal is good enough. Endless repetitions of the law identity in the form of ‘Brexit is Brexit’ or ‘No means No’ (the latter surprisingly only for a generation) won’t help define where the right point is from the point of view of ‘the people’. and will only end up with everyone getting the worst of all possible worlds.

  12. I really do not get the impression that Theresa May is open to a second Independence Referendum anytime soon. Nicola Sturgeon will surely be picking that up and it will be interesting to see how she responds as events unfold. UDI would be a nuclear option for her to adopt – and would invite a Westminster response of Direct Rule on the lines of that imposed on Stormont back in Spring 1972. She is probably astute enough to recognise that and for that reason I suspect she will steer clear of any threat of UDI in the near future>

  13. @Barbanzero: I don’t think a Scottish pound with a fixed exchange rate to the British pound is a viable solution if Scotland wants to join the EU. Under the EU rules, any new member country has to join the Euro once it meets the necessary economic criteria. The first step towards joining the Euro would be of course joining the ERM , which would be impossible with the Scottish pound were linked to the British pound.

    Having said that, it is true that several countries like Sweden have joined the EU without setting a date to join the ERM, thus violating the EU treaties, and the EU doesn’t seem to care or sanction them. It remains to be seen what the reaction would be if Scotland applied for EU membership, but insisted on a currency arrangement which, in practice, would permanently rule out joining the ERM.

  14. @THE OTHER HOWARD

    The over 45 age group tended to be more leave inclined than younger age groups. Then again, there is a closer correlation between richer, well educated people and voting remain, so take it how you will.

  15. I think the leave supporters don’t understand that many of us on the remain side feel an overwhelming sense of sadness and frustration at the way the vote turned out. It’s true that this sometimes emerges in angry comments, but human emotions are not always rational. I wanted this country to be in Europe in every sense, and being outside of the EU feels strange, even alien, to many of us who were brought up in a period when the UK was in the EU all the time. I went to a school that strongly encouraged foreign language learning, trips to the continent, exchanges, etc. We are brought up to see our future in Europe. So abandoning all of this is completely absurd to me. I simply don’t buy all of these arguments about sovereignty and immigration – they don’t concern me – and I find it extremely odd that they should concern others. So this is where I’m coming from – I wonder where the leavers are coming from.

  16. @GRAHAM

    “I really do not get the impression that Theresa May is open to a second Independence Referendum anytime soon.”

    I don’t think a second referendum on independence has ever been on the cards, however if Scottish public opinion is seen to swing strongly in favour there is the possibility of a bandwagon gathering pace.

  17. “Such deals have to be negotiated and the logical solutions to giving them legitimacy would be more on the lines of trade’s union negotiations when people keep on going back to the membership to see if a deal is good enough.”

    I’m actually really impressed with @Charles’ analogy here, and kicking myself that I didn’t think of it first.

    Conservative governments have introduced all manner of requirements for the very small matter of workers voting to withdraw their labour, including laws about timescales.

    If we were to apply @TOH’s logic to this, strikers would be asked whether or not they wanted to strike. If they votes Yes, that decision would stand, regardless of what offers were made, because that’s what people voted for.

    there seems to be a complete cognitative breakdown here, with some people failing to understand that democratic choices can change over time and under changed circumstances.

    The Brexiteers were and remain convinced that brexit will be good for the UK, and the terms will be acceptable. So why are they so frightened of democratically asking the people to confirm this?

  18. Scotland would have the same border arrangement as NI & ROI post the Brexit deal I outlined.

    I am assuming it is open for travel but not for work or benefits etc. So EU Nationals could travel to rUK from Scotland & vice versa but could not work, live, claim benefits in rUK.

    The currency would be Scots Pound which would be pegged to the GBP. If WM and Edinburgh agree then I doubt the EU will quibble.

    Scotland would have a treaty with rUK so we could still be ‘British’. I have a greater appreciation of No to independence voters because I understand how they will feel getting taken out of a union they care about, so I think some kind of deal with rUK that keeps British identity would keep most folk happy.

    What I hope is T May finds N Sturgeon ‘Someone she can do business with and vice versa’ The key is agreement between WM and Edinburgh that can be presented to the EU, having Scotland at odds with WM isn’t a strong negotiating position.

    @Graham
    I am not sure WM imposing direct rule on Scotland is a goer. Remember who has the nukes.

  19. MBRUNO

    Please read the two posts on Page 5 of this thread where I link to reasonably authoritative EU sources which are less than 5 pages long. They deflate many of the myths pushed by the unionist media [ie virtually all of it].

    You may not believe them but the EU itself does. Progress towards the Euro is compulsory but the ERM is not. Nobody is trying to force Sweden to join the ERM, much though other EU members may wish them to do so.

    That said, the likely scenario is that the Kingdom of Scotland would become the successor state to the UK, in which case it would clearly start with Sterling as the currency on Day 1, but would certainly be encouraged towards the Euro over time.

    Personally I see no problem in joining a stable Euro, but that’s irrelevant.

  20. TANCRED

    That’s how you feel as an individual about leaving the EU however as an individual who voted leave I can’t say I’m emotionally attached to your comment.

    Anyway lets cut the nattering and chuntering on Brexit….I want to know if the price of a punnet of Scottish raspberries will go up post independence?

  21. TANCRED 3.52

    I know all that, I made clear that I was talking specifically about my friends and neighbours who happen to fit the analysis in terms of being generally socially conservative, but not so in being affluent and on the whole highly educated.

    Tancred 4.04

    I understand where you are coming from, but you see many of the leavers like me feel just as strongly the opposite way. We feel little in common with Europeans other than many like to enjoy their beaches and sun. We have much more in common with the Commonwealth countries and the USA who were our strongest allies in WW2. We don’t trust the EU, we think its currency is fundamentally unstable, and we think it has stopped us trading freely with the rest of the World. I’ve waited 40 years for this moment.

    That is why the country is divided and there is passion on both sides of the argument.

  22. @ALEC

    “The Brexiteers were and remain convinced that brexit will be good for the UK, and the terms will be acceptable. So why are they so frightened of democratically asking the people to confirm this?”

    Good question. I think the answer is that many Brexiteers still fear their project being stolen by the devious politicians. In may ways, Cameron had already negotiated a ‘soft Brexit’ before the referendum, which makes me wonder why a referendum was even necessary. An EEA agreement would, for all intents and purposes, bring us back to the status negotiated by Cameron, with a few changes here and there. Therefore, a choice between EEA and a return to the EU would not satisfy the ‘hard’ Brexiteers who want neither.

  23. Tancred

    I think what I should have said regarding the Euro is that it has a destabilizing effect between the disparate economies of EU countries.

  24. Alec

    You post to Tancred

    Correct.

  25. Couper2802

    “@Graham
    I am not sure WM imposing direct rule on Scotland is a goer. Remember who has the nukes.”

    Had to smile at that :-)

  26. TANCRED

    @” I wonder where the leavers are coming from.”

    Boston
    South Holland
    Castle Point
    Thurrock
    Great Yarmouth
    Fenland
    Mansfield
    Bolsover
    East Lindsey
    NE Lincolnshire
    The North East
    East Midlands
    Yorks & Humberside
    West Midlands
    Areas of low education levels
    Areas with high manufacturing
    Areas with lower house prices
    Areas with lower wages
    People over 45 years of age

    ………..Mostly.

    ( The Times)

    Didn’t you read the papers ?

  27. @Tancred – that’s a decent post. Others take a different view, but I think we could all understad your frustration when expressed like that.

    For my part, I think both sides should accept that in or out of the EU, there are advantages and disadvantages. I personally don’t think the long term situation will be too much different in economic terms overall, but short term it will be quite a hit.

    My reticence to leave is based more on your thinking – in an age where we face huge global crises, things way bigger than day to day politics and even terror wars – things like antibiotic resistance and global warming, we need to be collaborating, and being in is better than being out.

    But there are pros and cons. This morning the Royal College of Surgeons has argued that Brexit will make the NHS safer. We will be able to address the poor medical English language skills of EU surgeons, which can’t be done at present due to EU rules. We will also be able to impose UK’s higher standards on medical instruments, and we will be able to ensure better training for surgeons by avoiding some of the pitfalls of the well intentioned working time directive as it affects surgeons.

    We’ll get through this, and we will remain a small island off the northwest coast of Europe, but I think it does change us, and that’s the bit I am more worried about.

  28. @ Colin

    While the Times’s list is correct, it has one error – lower wages. If the place is removed, the wage ceases to be significant, i.e. lower wage people in areas that voted for remain tended to vote for remain.

    But the list shows how big coalition was built behind both camps.

  29. COLIN

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha :-) :-)

  30. @THE OTHER HOWARD

    I get where you are coming from, but this may be partly because you are from a generation of men brought up on Commando comics and WW2 action films shown as Saturday evening fare on BBC1. People 10-15 years younger than you may well have a different view. Personally, I have never seen a contradiction between having a close relationship with the USA, Canada, Aus/NZ and also being in the EU. Let’s face it, most white Americans are a pretty mixed bunch anyway – lots of British and Irish, but also Germans, Poles, Italians, etc. Similar for Canada these days. Australia and NZ are simply too distant and exotic for me to relate to – the lifestyles and climate in these countries is very different from ours. I value the impact of British culture and traditions in these countries but I still see Britain as belonging in Europe. There are language barriers, but these are not as great as they used to be as so many people speak English on the continent.
    I guess that remainers are basically modernists – we adapt to the changing world – while leavers are nostalgics, yearning for a past age of British global influence, even dominance. Your mention of WW2 is significant in this context. Ultimately, I still believe we remainers will win, as people will slowly but steadily come to accept the irrationality of Brexit and the absurdity of being separated by other European nations.
    I look forward to that day.

  31. @Barbanzero: progress to the Euro is compulsory for all EU members unless they secure an opt-out, as the European Commission itself makes abundantly clear in the quote below.
    :

    ” Adopting the euro

    The European Union grows as candidate countries meet the conditions for entry and accede to the Union – this process is known as enlargement. Similarly, the euro area is enlarging as non-euro-area EU Member States meet the conditions for entry and adopt the euro.

    The euro area includes those EU Member States that have adopted the single currency. But the euro area is not static – under the Treaty, all EU Member States have to join the euro area once the necessary conditions are fulfilled, except Denmark and the United Kingdom which have negotiated an ‘opt-out’ clause that allows them to remain outside the euro area.”

    #end of quote#

    On the other hand, joining the ERM is one the “convergence criteria” that have to be met prior to joining the Euro. There can’t be one without the other.

    The only thing that is true, however, is that the EU treaties do not impose a deadline for new members to comply with the convergence criteria, which, in practice, means that they can delay it indefinitely. I don’t think that would be politically acceptable for an independent Scotland though if the country wanted to apply for EU membership in a post-independence scenario.

    http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/adoption/index_en.htm

    http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/adoption/who_can_join/index_en.htm

  32. Roland
    Love your post at 2:37.

  33. Tancred
    “I went to a school that strongly encouraged foreign language learning, trips to the continent, exchanges, etc. ”

    So did I, long before we joined the Common Market. There’s no reason why stuff like that shouldn’t continue, or be restricted to Europe.

  34. @Alec

    Suspect the import of poor quality Pakistani made implements helps the bank balance of whichever doctor has the contract – nothing to do with the EU.

  35. MBRUNO

    So you accept:
    On the other hand, joining the ERM is one the “convergence criteria” that have to be met prior to joining the Euro. There can’t be one without the other.
    and
    the EU treaties do not impose a deadline for new members to comply with the convergence criteria, which, in practice, means that they can delay it indefinitely.

    Yet you still say:
    I don’t think that would be politically acceptable for an independent Scotland though if the country wanted to apply for EU membership in a post-independence scenario.

    Not to you personally, perhaps, but you’re suggesting that despite already meeting all the other criteria and actually being in the EU already, the other 27 members, already stung by E&W planning to leave, will try to change the rules in order to make it more difficult to remain?

    You seem to have an idée fixe, though whether it relates to the nasty EU or nasty Scotland is hard to tell.

  36. Tancred

    ” I still believe we remainers will win, as people will slowly but steadily come to accept the irrationality of Brexit and the absurdity of being separated by other European nations.”

    If your right and of course you may be then all you have to do is wait.

    I believe the Brexit was inevitable sooner or later and that the remainers will come to accept that we are correct about the EU and the inevitability of it’s break up.

    I expect one of us will be right.

  37. Good Afternoon everyone from a hot Bournemouth, which voted OUT.

    TANCRED. Hello to you; I remember the grief that my Dad felt on 19/6/70 when he realised the Tories were more popular than the Labour Party, into which he was born in Aberavon in 1925 and I felt similiar grief when Major beat Kinnock in 1992.

    Politics has a habit of showing us we live in a different country to that which we thought.

    Just from me: I voted OUT, and I would classify myself as an Old Labour Man; Denis Healey was my hero (!) sadly, as a young man.

    My prime motive was democracy as understood by Locke and Burke- the right of the people at the ballot box to appoint and remove the legislature; thus to to remove and appoint the executive at a General Election- which I expect to be sooner than 2020- by the way.

    The second motive was tribal, and I apologise for this, but many Lab voters of a certain age (Plus 55) probably had this motive; it was a partisan vote against a Government that came across as partisan in some of its reforms.

    In contrast Wilson, in 1975, took a back seat in that campaign and allowed Callaghan and Thatcher to take it on.

    A final thought before I go to our beach: Orwell’s essay on ‘England your England’ explains the result, in my view; describing what non’-liberal’ England is like.

    (Too long a post, I am sorry)

  38. @ALEC

    The issue with doctors’ language skills is interesting. As someone who works in the IT industry and very closely with Indians, I find that I am always having to correct their reports due to poor English and bad grammar. It’s not a problem that is purely European. As for the working time directive, I don’t see this as a problem – we simply need more doctors, not forcing existing ones to work 80 hours a week or more.

  39. @Graham

    I don’t think May has any intention at all (or ever has) to go along with a second Indyref

    Likewise i don’t think Sturgeon thinks there is any chance she will get any concessions from May.

    They both however need to be seen to willing to listen to the others position.

    The crunch will come with A50 – if the UK announces its intent the the Scottish parliament can test its position with the electorate and EU civil servants. It will no longer be hypothetical

  40. @THE OTHER HOWARD

    I agree with you in that a Brexit vote was pretty much inevitable. Given the relentless hostility to the EU from so many newspapers it seemed obvious. The Sun had been waging a hate campaign against the EU since the days of Jacques Delors, so hardly surprising that working class Tories voted hugely for Brexit, expecially given that the Mail and Express also took the same view.

  41. @THE OTHER HOWARD

    My feeling is that in the fullness of time, the pro-EU view will be proved to have been the correct one. The one thing I regret is that we will have to endure quite a bit of economic upheaval over several years before the truth hits home. Anyway, we shall see.

  42. @COLIN

    I meant ‘are coming from’ in terms of their mindset, not geographical location or social class.

  43. TANCRED

    I welcome the more reasoned tone of your last few posts although the suggestion that Leave voters were influenced by Commando comics and WWII action films is a sad return to the more insulting comments of previous posts.

    Here, in no particular order, are just a few of the reasons why I voted Leave
    – The heartless treatment of the Greek people in the wake of their ongoing financial crisis.
    – The risk of war by continuing the push into former Soviet republics which have a significant ethnic Russian population. Russia is bound to be sensitive to this. The war in Ukraine began at least in part because the EU wanted to expand there.
    – The destruction of towns like Grimsby through loss of their fishing industry.
    – The Eurozone. A shared currency can only work when the sharers have similar economies and working practices. Germany, Greece and the Baltic states are all very different in that respect. It will eventually collapse.
    – The apparent need to interfere in trivia like how powerful your vacuum cleaner can be.
    – The belief that it is better to destroy food or stop it being produced than let the price drop.

    I could go on, but that’s a start.
    And don’t assume that all young people agree with you.
    I know of mid-20s ethnic minority women with top degrees working in the NHS who are strongly in the Leave camp despite apparently fitting all the Remain demographics.

    I feel that by voting Leave, we are rats leaving a sinking ship but I’d rather we were surviving rats than be drowned as the EU, because of all its structural deficiencies and policies will, sooner or later, sink. I just hope that our friends in other EU countries see sense and get out before they too drown.

  44. @valerie,

    Scotland and the SNP can’t have out of the U.K and in the EU, yet also have sterling, talk about picking and choosing, it should be clear they are having the failing euro and see how the vote goes. They can also take their fair share of debt too.

  45. I agree with @ToH that the Euro is almost certainly ‘bad’ for many of the countries that have signed up for it. I don’t, however, think that Europe’s difficulties are any reason to leave them to it. My impression is that we have always had a tendency to national complacency and a belief that John Bull was superior to any number of Frenchies, Fritzes, Ities or whatever. Our experience, however, has been that when Europe is in trouble, so are we and we have suffered grievously in the wars that have been the result.

    So I think that we should be delighted that during the time of the EU dictatorships in Spain and Portugal has withered, some kind of peace has broken out in Ireland and Eastern European countries like Poland that are in the EU have become more prosperous than those that are not like the Ukraine. If our leaving has a bad effect on Ireland (and presumably Scotland if it stays we go) I don’t see any reason to be glad about that at all.

    Obviously one cannot prove cause and effect for these changes. Nor can one do so for the allegations against the EU (how does it stop us trading with the rest of the World, when the Germans seem to manage it a lot better than we do)..

    What from a polling point of view would be interesting would be to see how far people believe that the EU has had any positive effects of the kind listed above, and how far they believe by contrast in its equally unprovable negative impacts.

    @Alec Thanks! When you agree with me I am confident I am right!

  46. Some interesting posts today, and it’s good to see the generally good-tempered tone from all quarters. I think more light and less heat is a pretty good maxim.

    The Bloomberg piece on Ireland and Brexit was interesting, not least for this line: “It’s this scenario that prompted Kenny to create a government unit as early as 2015 dedicated to developing contingency plans for Brexit.”
    Would that the UK government had had as much foresight!

    But the article was odd in that it didn’t mention at all the potential upside for ireland, as the preferred new location for many finance and other businesses displaced from London, because they need to be based within the EU. The USA in particular has long looked favourably on Ireland anyway, and in a small economy it wouldn’t take the arrival of many new companies to have a major impact. I hope those contingency plans include meeting a surge in demand for office space and top-end housing.

  47. It’s interesting that one of the major justifications for Brexiters is a theory that the EU is going to collapse.
    I suppose the imminent collapse is why polls in a number of countries have indicated renewed enthusiasm for the EU since the Brexit vote, and why many countries are desperate to join (and as the Brexiters would have had us believe many including Turkey and Syria are on the point of doing so!)
    I suspect rumours of its imminent collapse are greatly exaggerated, and that it is likely to go from strength to strength now that the UK is planning a miserable exit, and ceasing to be such a brake on progress.
    Still, we can follow George Osborne’s plan and become the high-class tax haven of choice until the world gets its act together on tax havens.

  48. “I welcome the more reasoned tone of your last few posts although the suggestion that Leave voters were influenced by Commando comics and WWII action films is a sad return to the more insulting comments of previous posts.”

    Nonsense. Why should this be insulting? Cultural influences are important and they do affect people’s thinking and reasoning. Many Brexiteers will be old enough to have been conditioned to be suspicious of continentals, even if you are not.

    Taking each one of your points in turn:

    1) Greece. I’m puzzled as to why you think Greece has been treated with ‘heartlessness’. The Greeks have been totally irresponsible with their finances and they have seen the consequences. Once you break rules for one, the whole structure falls down.

    2) Pushing towards Russia. Surely this is a NATO matter, not an EU one. The EU is not a military alliance, and therefore there is no threat of war caused by its expansion towards Russia. I fail to see your logic here.

    3) Grimsby and fishing. I sympathise with you here, but people need to diversify their job options. Cornwall fishing has also been badly hit. The key thing here is explore other opportunities, not become stuck on old industries etc. Coal mining used to be a major employer, but times have moved on. Fishing needs to do likewise.

    4) The Euro. Britain is not in the Euro and for several years no serious politician has suggested that we should join it. This is therefore irrelevant to us.

    5) Trivial legislation. What might seem trivial to you is actually an important set of laws that ensure standardisation throughout Europe. These regulations help the consumer by stopping the multitude of different electronic components etc in a variety of appliances.

    6) Food mountains. Point taken – this should stop, but hardly a strong reason to leave the EU.

    People voted leave for many different reasons. The ‘ethnic minority’ people you mention probably voted leave because they saw this as making it easier for them to bring people over from India etc. Then again, I know some Indians who voted remain because they work as IT contractors and leaving the EU will limit their career and earning options. Horses for courses.

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