The weekly TNS-BMRB poll is out, and has topline figures of CON 31%(nc), LAB 39%(-2), LD 11%(+2), UKIP 7%(-2). Changes are from their last poll a week ago.

Meanwhile the daily YouGov poll for the Sun this morning had topline figures of CON 33%, LAB 42%, LDEM 10%, UKIP 8%.

All appears to be pretty steady, as it has been for months. Coming up this week though we have the European budget meeting – last year Cameron’s European “veto” temporarily closed the Labour lead in the polls (I suspect largely becuase of the impact of perceptions of Cameron as a strong and effective leader, rather than the particular issues at stake). The media are building this week’s meeting up to a similar test of Cameron, so it will be interesting to see if there is an impact in the polls from it – clearly it can go either way, strong or weak, positive or negative… or indeed, no difference whatsoever, the impact that most things end up having on voting intention! We shall see.

Today there is also a new tranche of polling from Lord Ashcroft, which I hope to have time to look at later but which can meanwhile be viewed here.


145 Responses to “New TNS-BMRB and YouGov polls”

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  1. Another Scottish thread!

  2. AW
    I agree that the EU Budget Meeting will give Cameron the opportunity of once again scoring as a strong leader and defender of the pound, and that we may see a Tory vi bounce.

  3. Ho hum.

    Apparently some in the EU are already manouvering to brand the UK as the villain in these negotiations. This is in spite of the UK merely calling for the same things as a lot of other countries.

    This rather reminds me of the song from the South Park movie, “Blame Canada”. In fact, I have even written the lyrics for a new song, “Blame Britain”.

    http://ohandanotherthing.posterous.com/we-must-stop-international-finance-destablisi

  4. Just before I comment on these polls, I thought the discussion on the last thread about the “tyranny of the majority” was interesting. Majoritarianism is the basis of representative democracy in the sense that the governing party, or parties, is/are self-selected by dint of a parliamentary majority and, depending on the fairness of the electoral, get their parliamentary majorities as a result of gaining the majority of votes. Lord Hailsham called this an “elective dictatorship” but it doesn’t have to be either a dictatorship or a tyranny if the electorate are able to re-visit their decisions via regular elections and governments govern on behalf of all of their citizens and don’t merely pander to supportive vested interests and/or core supporters.

    I believe, however, that there can be a “tyranny of the fortunate” in a democracy and this is usually brought about more by the iniquities in our economic system although it can be, and is, entrenched by moribund electoral systems and alienated electorates. Galbraith writes persuasively on this concept in his superb book, “The Culture of Contentment”.

    As for the recent polls, Opinium, ICM and TNS are showing a slight softening in the Labour VI, although the Tory VI appears becalmed. YouGov is pointing to business as usual. However, it might be worth keeping an eye on other polls now to see if the slight reduction in the Labour VI is being picked up more generally and isn’t just the result of a sampling error in a couple of dodgy polls.

    Personally, I can’t see Cameron getting any sort of bounce from the latest EU meeting. He had the element of surprise on his side in December last year but failing some extraordinary event, I’m not sure he’s got much wriggle room this time around to do any grandstanding or show-boating.

  5. The only thing that can be said about polling movents in recent days, weeks, months, is that the LibDems are in deep trouble especially in the Highlands; the Cons had a steep hill to climb in difficult conditions if they are to improve their postion on the last election; that they haven’t made the progress they needed by the half way mark; that (whether for lack of numbers or lack of will) they won’t be able to count on LibDems to help form a government.

    Self deluding partisan Cons will accept most of these propositions but comfort themselves that there is still time to turn things around.

    Aye, right.

    Will they still find that cause for comfort next week, next month, next year ….. a month before the election, a week before the election, the day before the election, … when the exit polls come in …..?

    Probably the Authoritarian Followers will.

    Realists will say at some point or other that it is too late. Count me in amongst those who say we have reached that point now. Who will agree with me today, or tomorrow,or next week, or next month if there is no significant movement?

    It is also true that Labour havn’t got much success to take comfort from.

    If the LibDems have few MPs to contribute to a majority, and the number of “Others” increases just a little, it might be easier than last time to form a Labour led majority with fewer parties.

    For this purpose, any UKIP MPs have to be added to Cons, and they would reduce the number of Cons they otherwise would have been.

    Assorted Nationalists plus Greens could support Labour on S&C. Since the SNP have played this game before from the majority position, you might expect them to do well out of it playing against inexperienced Labour, many of whose supporters simply will not understand the moves.

    Unless assorted Nationalists have enough weight to form a coalition with Labour, there is no other possibility.The LibDems won’t be available as coalition partners.

    In the not unlikely event of a Lab led Lab-Nat-Gr coalition having the numbers, this change in the current balance could only come about from SNP success and there is a limit to what the SNP can take from the LibDems + Con. Beyond that, the seats must come from Labour, which does nothing for the Con v (Lab + Nat) balance.

    Any Faustian bargain with the SNP is of course very damaging for SLAB in the same way that the SLD’s have found with their southern colleagues going into coalition with the Cons.

    Lab needs to think very carefully about any deal with the SNP. The SNP has experience as the main opponents to a coalition, (second largest party by 1) a minority government, and (now) an overall majority of 1.

    A club team led by a Grand Master v beginners with no coherent strategy.

    It is entirely possible that the SNP will convincingly lose the referendum, giving false coindence to SLAB, and yet make gains in both parliaments. Those in both governing parties at Westminster might look back nostalgically to the easier life under a FPTP two party system of alternate elites taking turns.

    The complexity of letting LibDems, Nats and UKIP play in this game spoils it.

    It’s just not cricket.

  6. CB11

    Citibank published a report some time ago saying that we lived in a pluotocracy (warning bad spelling, means rule of money, aka one dollar one vote) the phrase was coined by Plato I believe

  7. RiN

    Surely you mean Pluto, the cartoon dog? Otherwise it would be Platocracy.

    Good job there are clever people [like wot I am] to explain thins to you.

  8. Paul

    Damm must I hunt down the correct spelling, its not my strong point you know, but anyhow I don’t think it has anything to do with the cartoon dog

  9. STATGEEK

    I think Anthony has commented previously on the “how did you vote last time” Q.

    According to the responses from all GB, there was an 80% turn out at the last UK GE!

    For Scotland, there is the further complication that people don’t remember dates very well, and with a Scottish GE being the last GE that many had voted in, an element of confusion seems quite likely, among some of the 81% who claimed to have voted!

  10. Plutocracy (from Ancient Greek ??????, ploutos, meaning “wealth”, and ??????, kratos, meaning “power, dominion, rule”), also known as plutonomy or plutarchy, is rule by the wealthy

  11. The only valid argument I’ve heard about the tyranny of the majority is the situation where the government does something of modest benefit to the majority of the country but at great cost to a minority. When this actually happens is open to debate. I suppose my example could be that, until recently, the chronic underinvestment in our railways was partly down to a majority of motorists openly not giving a damn about the minority of people who regularly travel by train, but that’s my own personal opinion. And it’s not that strong an example.

    Most people, however, seem to use this phrase when they are in a minority who have been outvoted and won’t accept they’re not entitled to get their way. This is why I am highly suspicious of anyone arguing that the “rule of law” (usually some treaty, constitutional right or quasi-constitutional legislation) trumps overwhelming public support. Usually this means a dodgy interpretation of an ambiguous phrase. All this achieves is the transfer of power from the voter to unelected judges, whose agenda could be anything.

    I’m far more concerned about the tyranny of the minority myself – namely those people who think that winning 37% of the vote entitles them to do lots of things the public never asked for and don’t want.

  12. According to Wiki, “Plutocracy” was first recorded in use in 1652.

    Had always assumed it to have been coined in the time of it’s etymology in ancient Greece.

  13. UKIPers may like to note an article in today’s Herald.

    Foreign office minister Hugo Swire has said there was no basis to SNP claims that because Scots were already EU citizens by virtue of being British, they would stay in the EU if Scotland became independent following a referendum in 2014.

    Pete Wishart, SNP MP for Perth and North Perthshire, said that “When Scotland secures its independence, the Act of Union will fall and there will be two successor states.

    “Whatever happens to an independent Scotland will happen to the rest of the United Kingdom – that’s what happened in Czechoslovakia.”

    ” the biggest threat to Scots being forced out of the EU came not from the SNP but the Conservative eurosceptics.

    He said: “The threat comes from the Westminster Tories.

    “They are even prepared to defeat their Government to ensure they get this country out of Europe.

    …..(Bookies) are offering odds of 6-1, which I think are very generous, that the UK will be out of the EU by 2020.

    “That is the threat to Scotland’s EU membership.”

    While there was much else said by the minister that could charitably be regarded as speculation than a deliberate intention to mislead (a lie), UKIPers may note that if he is right on one point, and Mr Wishart on the other, independence for Scotland will mean that r-UK will need to re-negotiate entry.

    The minister seems to think that the potential loss of concessions for Scotland is the key issue. UKIPers may think that it is the opportunity for r-UK to leave.

    My own view is that the day afer independence nothing much will change, that ultimately anything can be negotiated ofer time and an independent Scotland could leave the EU – or use the Euro – whenever it wants to, but that any dramatic change resulting from independence would be avoided, deferred and mitigated and as drawn out as any other EU negotiation, to to avoid instability and for the convenience of negotiators.

    It’s a non-issue as far as Yes/No is concerned.

    Like Nato, the monarchy and much else.

    Mr Wishart said the only country ever to have left the European Union was Greenland – a process he said took two years of detailed negotiation after Greenland actively voted to leave – and there was no precedent or procedure to kick out a member state.

    And he told MPs the biggest threat to Scots being forced out of the EU came not from the SNP but the Conservative eurosceptics.

    He said: “The threat comes from the Westminster Tories.

    “They are at it again.

    “They are even prepared to defeat their Government to ensure they get this country out of Europe.

    “(Bookies) are offering odds of 6-1, which I think are very generous, that the UK will be out of the EU by 2020.

    “That is the threat to Scotland’s EU membership.”

  14. Oh dear-another pair of political feet I was admiring turn out to be made of clay.

    Margaret Hodge, Chair of PAC , and roaster of Amazon, Starbucks & Google has a “small” shareholding in a family company founded by her father.

    DT reports that the company generated a third of it’s revenues in UK, but paid only 2.7% of it’s tax bill here.

    It is the 6th largest UK private company by turnover.

    “Speaking to The Daily Telegraph, Mrs Hodge defended Stemcor’s behaviour and said that the company had “assured” her it paid “every penny of tax that is owed”, ”
    DT

    …….but this is NOT the point you made so forcefully to Google & co Margaret-you said ” I am not accusing you of illegal behaviour-I am accusing you of immoral behaviour”.

    Moral high ground subsides beneath the waves of hypocrisy.

  15. Tyranny of the Majority – This seems to be the Fox News take on the presidential election : real america is no longer the majority. And in consequence lots of tax money will be taken from real America and given to the dependent whingers whonow are in the majority.

  16. Colin:

    “1652”

    I think you’ll find that Pluto the Dog dates from 1651.

    I rest me case.

    Can someone pleeeeeeeease offer the mature lady, with thighs like two pythons wot have both just eaten a fair sized piglet, a date??

    She is putting me off my coffee and battenburg – and that takes a lot of doing.

  17. Col:

    Your last sentence…. did you make that up or copy it?

    Its jolly good.

    I think “mature lady” would suit you by the way. It can be our secret if you like.

  18. @Couper2802

    I think that sums up my problems with tyranny of the majority pretty well. It’s quite transparent the real gripe is the tea party-leaning Republicans not getting their way.

    Would the Republican right be complaining about the tyranny of the majority if they got a few % more in the vote and use it to impose their values on the whole of America? I think not.

  19. John B

    At last the SNP is making the same point that I’ve been making for 2 years now

    BTW 6 to 1 are fantastic odds, I wouldn’t give more than even myself but you would have capital tied up for a wwhile

  20. I can see Nigel farage campaigning for Scots independence, if that’s the only way to get a ref on Europe. Surely if both Scotland and rUK were successor states both would need to have a ref at the end of negotiations before they could rejoin!!!!

    Lol this could get amusing

  21. PAUL

    Ah-didn’t realise Pluto was 17c-thanks.

    Re Mature Lady-I have experienced her company from time to time , on a purely involuntary basis.
    Following the nightmares though, found something to click ( don’t ask) which seems to have sent her ( and her chair) into cyberspace.

    As we speak , I have Sainsbury’s Bank, the FT & the National Trust.

    ………….boring, but the nightmares have gone.

    Yes-I “made it up” as you so prosaically put it.

    I hope Margaret successfully explains that her dad’s company is not doing what she accuses the Trio of Evil
    of doing, because I think she is doing a good job……….and it’s therapeutic to admire at least one Labour politician.

  22. @Colin – I was also despairing about Hodge’s family business tax affairs. I suppose she could argue that she is a minority shareholder and not making the decisions, but whatever, it isn’t good.

  23. Colin

    “prosaic”

    Did you want me to ask in rhyming couplets?

    – Cos If I had I might have fluffed it.

  24. I suspect the Euro-Kurfluffle is going to be overshadowed by closer-to-home news when what now appears an inevitable report from the OBR that GO is going to miss all his set targets.

  25. I agree with CrossBatt….back in December/January the EU veto had more of a novelty about it….under the present circumstances, it’s hard to see how the Tories (or Cameron) will get a bounce from only pushing to freeze the EU budget.

  26. We now know (thanks to a recent Sun/YouGov) that 2% of the public see Cameron as a Lion – 20% think he is a Snake, other options include a Labrador, Poodle and Lizard.

    A year ago Cameron was weak in reality. Cabinet members and backbenchers had forced his hand over the “veto” (Gary Gibbon was one of the few to report the threatened leadership challenge), and the PM had an uncomfortable time of it in Bruxelles. However, by and large the UK press were happy to go along with a line about how a defiant Cameron, defending ‘British interests/punching for Britain etc’, had singlehandedly stopped an EU treaty in its tracks.

    Should they have anything to crow about after the 2012 EU budget summit, it will be something of a test for the No10 machine to bring back on board a press which has become less sympathetic over time.

  27. ALEC

    AS you imply-that doesn’t wash for her.

    In any event-as she so forcefully pointed out to the Terrible TRio-it is not the letter of the tax law which is the issue for the public but the “morality” of their transfer pricing.

    So to use the “they pay what is due” excuse in the case of her own family really strikes at the core of her personal credibility.

    I have just seen that she is suing Priti Patel for libel over the issue.

    Amazon & Co presumably smiling inwardly.

  28. MEANWHILE, IN THE CONTINENT….
    Whereas UK VI polls vary within a reasonable margin, all showing a consistent Labour lead, the European right shows signs of such a disintegration that the 31-33% of the Conservatives will soon seem (or already seem) like a dream to them. After the catastrophic results of GE in Croatia, Slovakia, Lithuania and very soon Romania, Regional and Senatorial Election in the Czech Republic and, more recently, Presidential Election in Slovenia (two center-left candidates made it to the runoff, the right-wing one coming a distant third), two countries in the heart of Europe and the Eurozone, France and Italy, will very probably be, in the very near future, left without a major center-right party. This has already happened in Italy, where the PDL, the party founded by S. Berlusconi, is now at 14-15%, trailing behind the populist 5 star movement (17-21) and of course the center-left Democratic Party (27-30, or 40-45 together with its allies). This has already been verified at the recent Sicilian Regional Election, and remains to be proved in next GE (probably March 2013). But the most unsettling (for the European right) development came during the last days from France. The leadership contest in the UMP between the two main contenders, the hardliner Copé and the more moderate Fillon ended in an absolute draw, with the two sides claiming victory amidst a rain of mutual accusations. The official results give victory to Copé, by a narrow margin of 98 votes, or 0.06%, but the Fillon camp affirms that they won by 26 votes if one counts some overseas votes left uncounted by the official committee. The UMP is already under a double pressing, from its right (the National Front, 18% at PE, 13% at GE) and from its left, as the traditional Center seems to regenerate under the leadership of J-L Borloo. So, either the UMP explodes and its two remnants get absorbed by FN and UDI (the party of Borloo) respectively, or it remains nominally united, but with constant in-fightings which will eventually lead to its shrinking. The difference with Italy is that in France there is no imminent major election, so maybe the French right will have the time to recover, but to do this it must first clarify its ideological-political position, which is even more trickier than finding an appropriate leader (it is clear that neither Fillon nor Copé can play this role anymore).

  29. @ Colin

    Amazon & Co presumably smiling inwardly.
    ———————–
    I would doubt it. Even if Margaret H is wrong about her family’s company – & it is yet to be shown that she is – it doesn’t give Amazon or Starbucks or Google the moral high ground.

    And whatever Priti etc. say to defend the ongoing corporate tax avoidance culture, Osborne is probably going to have to do something about it or kiss goodbye to achieving his self-imposed deficit reduction targets.
    8-)

  30. CNS
    If concerns of a ‘tyranny of the majority’ are only tea party whining, why did the founders of the US build so many safeguards to protect against it in to their system of government?
    Hint – They did it over the concerns over the violation of individual liberty by the state.

    Why did the UK push for the creation of the ECHR?
    Hint – They did it over concerns over the violation of individual liberty by the state.

    UN universal declaration of human rights? The declaration of the rights of man? The bill of rights? The wall of separation of church and state? Magna Carta?
    All designed to defend individual liberty against violation by the state, whether that state has majority support or not.

    In practice a majority-backed state can probably do as it likes (actually any state which has the men with the guns backing it – majority support just makes it psychologically easier), but the idea that concerns over the violation of liberty is ‘just whining’ is stretching things a bit.

  31. @John B Dick

    Going thru Pete Wishart’s comments as follows

    “…When Scotland secures its independence, the Act of Union will fall and there will be two successor states…”

    No it won’t. the UK will retain continuity, albeit with a smaller area, just like 1926ish.

    “…Whatever happens to an independent Scotland will happen to the rest of the United Kingdom – that’s what happened in Czechoslovakia…”

    But it’s not what happened to the Soviet Union in 1991ish and it isn’t what happened in the UK in 1926ish

    “…The threat comes from the Westminster Tories. They are even prepared to defeat their Government to ensure they get this country out of Europe…That is the threat to Scotland’s EU membership…”

    True (I wondered when they’d notice this)

    “…Mr Wishart said the only country ever to have left the European Union was Greenland – a process he said took two years of detailed negotiation after Greenland actively voted to leave…”

    True, near enough. But I’m surprised a SNP person is advancing Greenland as an example. Greenland left Denmark, not the EU (EEC as was). Greenland was never in the EU/EEC in its own right, if you see what I mean. Denmark remained in the EU without having to renegotiate.

    “…UKIPers may note that if he is right on one point, and Mr Wishart on the other, independence for Scotland will mean that r-UK will need to re-negotiate entry…”

    No, it won’t. Denmark didn’t have to renegotiate entry when Greenland split off.

    “…the day afer independence nothing much will change, that ultimately anything can be negotiated ofer time and an independent Scotland could leave the EU – or use the Euro – whenever it wants to, but that any dramatic change resulting from independence would be avoided, deferred and mitigated and as drawn out as any other EU negotiation, to to avoid instability and for the convenience of negotiators…”

    Sounds about right. But change being mitigated is not the same as change will not happen.

    The above raises a fascinating question. I’m assuming the Labour lead is too small to guarantee a Labour victory and a Con government (minority or majority) may be formed after 2015. If this is true, then a EU referendum will be held in 2016ish, fail, and the UK leave in 2018ish. Given this, it’s possible that the best chance Scotland has of staying in the EU is to leave the UK before 2018ish

    rgdsm

  32. AMBER

    I think you miss the point orogenically speaking.

    Amazon et al did not & will not have the moral high ground because they fought their case on what is LEGALLY due from them under international & national tax law (currently)

    Hodge needed to have the moral high ground because she accused them -in terms-, not of illegality , but IMMORALITY.

    GO & Germany are already addressing multi-national transfer pricing at OECD level.

    No outcome here is going t help GO’s autumn statement problems.

    He will have to compensate for slippage on deficit reduction either by new spending cuts , or timetable extension.

    I feel it will be the latter & look forward to GO v EB on this issue.

  33. @Virgilio

    Excellent as always: thank you.

    rgdsm

  34. And to make my argument more concrete – the European Court of Human Rights often makes decisions that are unpopular with the majority of UK citizens (largely through press misrepresentation- but many people are of the opinion that society’s ‘baddies’ don’t deserve human rights), but it does a pretty decent job of defending democratic and individual rights.
    In other words, against the tyranny of the majority.

    I’m sure this’ll be attacked as a good example of a bad organisation by people who oppose the ECHR, but there you go.

  35. Virgilio

    Oh do please use paragraphs!… reading that comment has almost given me an epileptic fit. ):

  36. Allen

    Oh do stop nitpicking, paragraphs are neither here nor there

  37. @ Tinged

    Regarding the ECHR, that’s pretty much the point which I was making. Polling shows that the ECHR is not popular with the ‘populist’ majority whom Pete B was saying the UK political parties should be aiming to please.

    The ECHR is exactly the kind of thing which is seen as having been foisted on the UK by a “liberal elite”.The revolutionary vanguard of people who defend the ECHR as a good thing would be my choice of government from what is on offer at the moment. Not my Utopian, perfect choice of government or system of government.

    And as a committed Labour supporter, I am honest enough to say that I view them as the least worse – & Yvette Cooper often tries my patience regarding civil liberty issues!
    8-)

  38. Amber

    Would the lib dem idea of a written constitution and a bill of rights be enough to deny the tyranny of the majority

  39. @ Allan Christie

    Oh do please use paragraphs!… reading that comment has almost given me an epileptic fit. ):
    ————————–
    Have a friend copy it into Word (or similar) & paragraph it for you.

    I assume you do have friends. ;-)

  40. @ RiN

    Would the lib dem idea of a written constitution and a bill of rights be enough to deny the tyranny of the majority
    ——————–
    It would depend what was in it etc. My issue with the Lib Dems is that they are big on promises & short on delivery. Their plan for Lords reform was an ill thought through. Who’d trust them with writing the constitution?
    8-)

  41. Martyn

    Although I know you are the expert and I’m very glad that we have a super geek like you to give US the definitive gospel on any European or constitutional issue, I have to ask how you can be so sure. The argument is that the act of union joined two states together, when that act is repealed the two states will be separate. There will be two successor states the English “empire” and Scotland, I really don’t see how you can claim that the English “empire” will remain in the EU while Scotland will have to reapply. The united kingdom will be no more and the original treaty was signed by the united kingdom, therefore the treaty will be null and void. I think the crucial difference between the Greenland case or the potential catalan case is the act of union which create a new nation by mutual consent

  42. Amber

    I’m mortally wounded now

  43. richard in norway

    richard in norway

    “I can see Nigel farage campaigning for Scots independence…”

    He is an English Nationalist with no support in or understanding of Scotland. His precursors have been responsible for putting theScottish Tories where they are today.

    “Lol this could get amusing”

    For you and me, sure. For the big party leaders,n a hung parliament it’s a nightmare. They havn’t grasped the issues yet and their SNP opponents have been thinking about their strategy for 40 years.

  44. Amber
    The problem I had with your assertion originally is not with constitutional rights (which is effectively what the ECHR is) – but the idea that it’s better that a liberal elite form the executive and legislature than that liberal elite have majority support.
    While I do completely back constitutional rights [1] [2], I’m not so sure the idea should extend to the executive or legislature.

    But I suspect your views are a little more complex than I’m arguing against – so we should probably just leave it there, at mutual understanding of our differences. :)

    [1] I ideologically believe that individual liberty should trump everything else – practically I’d often support democracy over liberty, but it gets a bit messy when you get in to pragmatic views over ideological.
    [2] Potentially not the same constitutional rights as others would hope for – as I’m a non-propertarian libertarian.

  45. R in N
    ‘Would the lib dem idea of a written constitution and a bill of rights be enough to deny the tyranny of the majority’

    Is that a Lib Dem idea? I thought the provenance was older and from elsewhere?

  46. Tinged

    Give me all you cash then

  47. Regarding Lord Ashcroft polls, Ed Miliband must be very comforted with those results. Steady progress indeed.

  48. Martyn @John B Dick

    “… it’s not what happened to the Soviet Union in 1991ish and it isn’t what happened in the UK in 1926ish.”

    Ireland was aquired by conquest and administered separately. I’m not sure about USSR.

    “…Greenland was never in the EU/EEC in its own right,….”

    so it isn’t relevant so far as the UKIP point is concerned.

    “But change being mitigated is not the same as change will not happen. ”

    True, but it would not be of interest to UKIP in giving them a current gambit.

    “it’s possible that the best chance Scotland has of staying in the EU is to leave the UK before 2018ish”

    And if Scottish MP’s are gone there will be 50+ fewer MP’s voting for staying in the EU, opposing privatisation, ECHR and much else.

  49. Howard

    It was in the manifesto, it not the last one then the Charles Kennedy one

  50. “Give me all you cash then”
    Sure – abolish the legal right to property and I’ll happily hand you all the pieces of paper with the queen’s face on that I have.
    err..

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