ICM poll on the riots

The Guardian have an online ICM poll on the riots, conducted on Wednesday and Thursday. As in the YouGov poll at the start of the week, both David Cameron and Boris Johnson have negative ratings on how they handled the riots – 30% think Cameron did a good job dealing with them, 44% a bad job; 28% think Boris did a good job, 38% a bad job. In contrast Tim Godwin, the acting Commissioner of the Metropolitan police is seen as having done a good job by 45% to 27%.

The majority of the public (61%) are confident that the police are enforcing the laws fairly and without prejudice (36% are not), however only 41% are confident they have the resources available to control riots (56% do not).

Finally ICM asked people what they thought were the cases of the riots – as with the YouGov polling earlier this week people were most likely to blame it upon criminal individuals and cultural/societal problems, rather than economic, political, racial or policing problems. 45% said the main reason was criminal individuals, 28% a lack of respect within families and communities, 8% unemployment, 5% the shooting of Mark Duggan (2% said policing more generally), 4% the government and 2% the economic situation.


189 Responses to “ICM poll on the riots”

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  1. @ John B Dick

    I agree, individual action is better than doing nothing; but it makes me sad that governments of all countries are behaving as if economic competition with each other is better ‘for everybody’ than collaboration.
    8-)

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  2. Colin

    ‘Just watched a young Tottenham resident on tv news describe how they torched her flat-then chased her & her partner in their car as they escaped. She said she left with nothing, because she called the police & fire brigade & thought they would respond. She called them twice-they didn’t respond-so she fled for her life.’

    One of hundreds of experiences of the ordinary man or woman on the street, in their shop or at home in the affected areas. And yet some posters are more concerned about alleged tax evasion by David Laws.

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  3. COLIN

    I’ve still got some original Buddy Holly 45s!

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  4. HENRY & AMBER

    I wasn’t aware that there was any serious talk of bringing back Laws – the couldn’t could they?

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  5. Colin

    ‘I still remember the electric shock of hearing Rock Around The Clock for the first time .

    Buddy Holly

    The Stones & the Beatles

    The timeless genius of Dylan.

    The sublime Elvis.

    Fleetwood Mac. The Pogues. Jethro Tull. Tom Waits. Tom Petty. Van Morrison. Queen. Dire Straits.The Who. Eric Clapton. Pink Floyd………..Enya even.

    How can you you not have heard any of this?-it was part of our lives………………still is!

    Haven’t you heard of YouTube ?’

    As a poster who receives as much stick as you from those of a different colour, I would have thought no one would argue with you at least on this. But I was wrong.

    YouTube brings it all back.

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  6. Hoe do you explain this –

    Windsor and Maidenhead UA, Eton and Castle
    Thursday 11 August 2011 by election
    LD George Fussey 208 (47.4; +19.6)
    Con 182 (41.5; -23.7)
    Lab 32 (7.3; +0.3)
    UKIP 17 (3.9; +3.9)
    Majority 26
    Turnout 24%
    LD gain from Con
    Percentage change is since May 2011.

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  7. @ Henry

    One of hundreds of experiences of the ordinary man or woman on the street, in their shop or at home in the affected areas. And yet some posters are more concerned about alleged tax evasion by David Laws.
    ————————————————-
    Ed Miliband was one of the very few MPs who appear not to have viewed parliamentary expenses as an opportunity to ‘grab all you can…’

    As to some posters being more concerned etc… isn’t it possible to be equally concerned about both?
    8-)

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  8. @ David B

    I wasn’t aware that there was any serious talk of bringing back Laws – they couldn’t could they?
    ———————————————-
    I sincerely hope not.
    8-)

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  9. DAVIDB

    “I’ve still got some original Buddy Holly 45s!”

    Great-I remember the shock of his death even now.

    HENRY

    “YouTube brings it all back”

    It does indeed-a wonderful resource:-)

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  10. Henry

    Labour under Blair were moving in the right direction but no, they did not get anyway near the finish line. Then from 2007 onwards Labour spent the entire time focussing on the daily/ weekly news agenda and what might get them re-elected.

    I too would be more than happy if Cameron was able to tackle effectively both the criminal acts along with their causes.

    That twin track strategy must surely be the only viable option if we as a society are serious about this.

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  11. @ ROB SHEFFIELD

    “I too would be more than happy if Cameron was able to tackle effectively both the criminal acts along with their causes.

    That twin track strategy must surely be the only viable option if we as a society are serious about this.”

    Hear hear.

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  12. @Colin
    I apologise for getting so ratty with you earlier. I know there’s not really much point in doing so, but there you go.

    @Henry
    The point about David Laws is the impression that it would send to the public. It would give the impression of one rule and second chances for them and another and no second chances for us.
    Whether it has any real basis in factual reality is unimportant, only the public’s perception of it.
    That’s the thing about perceptions – take the fees for example. Students don’t have to pay the debt ’till they have a decent job, etc but the perception is a lack of affordability.
    Fact and perception part ways.

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  13. Amberstar

    Ed Miliband was one of the very few MPs who appear not to have viewed parliamentary expenses as an opportunity to ‘grab all you can…’

    As to some posters being more concerned etc… isn’t it possible to be equally concerned about both?

    EM and dear old Vince C as well. Yes it is.

    IMO what keeps most people awake at night is fear of the robber, the rioter and the looter, and most people want them stopped.

    Other than the elite, I don’t think most people lie awake at night worrying that (allegedly) David Laws, and possibly hundreds of other MPs, police chiefs, and bankers benefit at our expense. I don’t like it and am glad when they are stopped and punished, but the fear isn’t there.

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  14. Rob Sheffield

    I agree with your last post directed at me.

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  15. To Henry B
    What memories. And Radio 208/Luxembourg while I learned my O Level Latin and Physics.

    All of use, red/blue/green/orange can agree surely, and I would have been, in the 1960’s a ‘square, who also enjoyed chess, latin hymns and altar serving, especially the bell ringing and snuffing out the candles on the high altar- before vandals in my church took out the altars.

    To David B on the local by election.
    I know we must not extrapolate. But nevertheless, we may have a situation like in 1992-1997 when the Conservatives come across as out of touch with a society which is deeply troubled. Mr Clegg may win support, having warned of riots, Mr Coulston and police numbers on the front line

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  16. Tinged Fringe

    ‘no second chances for us’.

    While the establishment and privileged are a long way from me way above or way below, depending how you look at it, I would never threaten people with violence or riot or loot or commit arson. These are mindless crimes against the innocent and vulnerable.

    So ‘no second chances for us’ does not apply to me nor I hope you.

    If we do make mistakes, and everyone does then I would hope for a second chance, but this rioting/looting is mindless callous thuggery IMO. I do not expect everyone to agree.

    For some time David Steel seemed a possibility.

    Labour’s Barbara Castle was someone I respected, but her would be biggest triumph, in place of strife, that might have changed political history was brought down by JC, who I suspect lived to regret it.

    However, while I have learned to live with inadequate MPs, police chiefs and bankers, I baulk at the idea that anyone involved in the mindless thuggery of the last few days should in anyway be excused because of the faults and failings of others.

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  17. Chris Lane 1945

    I actually passed my Latin O’level ( by the smallest margin). My teacher told me how wrong it was that I with no talent in subject passed but that others far more deserving than me failed. I remember thinking then as now, ‘How unfair life is’.

    But Luxembourg and later the sea pirate radios were great. The only problem with lux was my radio kept fading.

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  18. @Henry – on the contrary, I think many ‘ordinary’ people are making the connection between the sentences we are seeing today and the ‘give it back and say you’re sorry and we can all be happy’ line taken by MPs.

    This first hit my radar watching Young People’s Q Time last night on BBC3. Scores of angry young people drawing parallels between the treatments meted out to different classes of criminal. I suspect it’s yuou who are a little out of touch.

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  19. I wonder if the riots will mark the beginning of the end for the coalition. Not because of any revolution fervour or uprising of the people, but because discussion in the aftermath will show up the unworkability of the cuts agenda. We’re already seeing this with the row about police cuts, but the increased pressure on the prisons budget (and Justice is in receipt of some of the biggest cuts) will also throw up problems.

    If locking up every teenager seen on CCTV leads to rapists being let out early, I can see the public losing its enchantment with automatic punishment rather quickly. Even if not how is it all to be paid for? Mrs A’s point about bringing back David Laws also will mean that any moral posturing from politicians will be met with mockery for a long time.

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  20. Henry

    One of hundreds of experiences of the ordinary man or woman on the street, in their shop or at home in the affected areas. And yet some posters are more concerned about alleged tax evasion by David Laws.

    It’s about justice though – people being punished according to what they did not who they know or what would go down well with the public.

    Unless you are thinking that someone in the riots should be blamed for everything that happened in the riots. In which case should we apply the same principle to MPs and Peers and lock them all up for the crimes of the worst?

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  21. Tinged Fringe
    @Henry
    “The point about David Laws is the impression that it would send to the public.”

    I think that that impression was cast many years ago when Mandleson resigned not once but twice over dishonesty & made a come back each time. And maybe that was right, he is a brilliant tactician after all and no one is perfect, David Laws made a mistake (not for financial benefit, you will recall) so give him a second chance. He is too bright to be wasted

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  22. DAVIDB

    How do you explain this –

    Windsor and Maidenhead UA, Eton and Castle
    Thursday 11 August 2011 by election
    LD George Fussey 208 (47.4; +19.6)
    Con 182 (41.5; -23.7)
    Lab 32 (7.3; +0.3)
    UKIP 17 (3.9; +3.9)
    Majority 26
    Turnout 24%
    LD gain from Con
    Percentage change is since May 2011.

    I explain it as the School staff (and 6th Form*) being on holiday and the Castle people being at Balmoral.

    *It’s probably call by some obscure name such as the ‘Wibble’ but I can’t be bothered to look it up.

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  23. Alec

    With two children living in the areas where the riots occurred in London, if staying awake all night worrying about them, as opposed to MPs misdemeanours, proves in your opinion I am out of touch I really don’t care. Perhaps we have to agree that our values in terms of the rioters are 100 miles apart. I find the views of a few of the posters re excuses for rioters as opposed to concern for victims quite callous but that’s my view.

    We may agree on MPs. I have no time for the privileged who abuse power, and was the first to cheer when the worst offenders were sent to jail. The old adage about power is probably true.

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  24. I think we nedd to be careful not to sound like apologists for looters and rioters. Trying to understand doesn’t mean approval.

    Will this affect voting intention?

    I have a feeling this time it will. When do we see the next polls?

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  25. Not sure if this has been commented upon but I note on 5% blame the riots on the guy who was shot by police.

    Whatever criticism I have of the police in handling these riots, I do not criticise them for shooting him. It sad I know, but he had an ILLEGAL WEAPON WHICH WAS LOADED and could have been fired at anyone, Roal Moat style. They acted correctly in the circumstances. The moral is, if you don’t want to be shot dead, don’t carry illegal weapons.

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  26. Tinged Fringe

    Very gracious-no worries.

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  27. Nick Pool –
    There is nothing to understand. It’s the difference between right & wrong. If it’s all down to the excuses you lefties want to give these thugs, why are the major cities in India not constantly ablaze with riots? There is real poverty there, at a level which does not appear in the UK.

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  28. Henry,
    You’re missing my point.
    I’m not saying that it justifies the rioting or looting. I’m not saying any negative reactions are justified. There are no excuses for individual crimes and people should be punished appropriately.
    But there will be a perception, if there are second chances for bankers, politicians and people like Coulson but not for anybody else, that there is an elite that can do what it wants and there is everybody else.

    Whether that is the reality or not is unimportant.

    But politicians risk a greater perception of being out of touch. Which is very dangerous, because dangerous ideologies (whether political or criminal) will exploit that.

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  29. To NICK POOLE and ROBERT NEWARK

    Yes. No quarter to the rioters.
    Hoping not to sound like Lord Tebbit;
    When my forbears came post-famine from Ireland they (we) set up schools and determined to join the culture of the UK, while retaining pride in the ‘old country’- singing songs and parades etc. The 1870 Education Act (Gladstone and Forster) ensured integration as the schools had to be inspected in return for rate support, which continued despite campaigns led by LG and WSC against ‘Rome on the Rates’.
    No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish was a common sign.

    Songs like ‘The McCalpine Fusiliers- Dubliners- tells the story.

    Having saidall that, I stll believe we need a new ROWNTREE_BOOTH report to look at cultural issues underlying these riots.

    I also think we cannot ignore the economic trends which Matthew Parris’s article for the TIMES on Thursday outlined, brilliantly.. Our economy just is not big enough, or growing enough to fund what we expect of governments and our own private consumption.

    HENRY: On the themes of songs, Lennon’s WORKING CLASS HERO is quite powerful

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  30. Nick Poole (and Rob Newark)

    I think we nedd to be careful not to sound like apologists for looters and rioters. Trying to understand doesn’t mean approval.

    I can understand where Rob is coming from but I agree about care and also want to understand

    As I writ before I would like IDS to be given more cash then set up a small inter party group to address ‘the broken society’. although not all society is broken, but there are deprived areas in UK where people of all ages seemed to have lost their way. It matters.

    As a frequent visitor to India, I agree that poverty does not create violence. However, this country does have a problem and if DC, EM, NC or IDS can start to address it I will be very grateful.

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  31. COLIN

    Have to admit to a general interest in dead rockers – have some original Eddie Cochran and T Rex as well!

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  32. DavidB

    What a connoisseur you are!

    Quite liked Cochran-Three Steps to Heaven??

    Yep-T Rex -all that GlamRock stuff-Ride a White Swan was a favourite .

    Memories eh?

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  33. Henry,
    Did you see IDS on Channel 4’s riot debate show?

    Tackled the issues far better than any other Cabinet member. If the coalition wish to restore trust and confidence then they need him to be the public face of the govvernment.

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  34. Last Wallander of the series tonight ( boohoo) so off now.

    The exchanges today have been good :-)

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  35. New Indy poll by Comres out tonight. Seems to have massively biased questions though?

    “The Government’s response to the economic crisis (eg, cuts to services, unemployment, reduced education funding) is helping fuel the rioters – Agree: 50% / Disagree: 36%”

    (Assuming those ‘examples’ were actually in the question, it’s not surprising that 50% agree? And since when was unemployment a Government policy?..)

    Along with…

    “Government ministers failed to return to their desks quickly enough from holidays – Agree: 61% / Disaree: 24%”

    Jeepers, what a mikey mouse poll :-)

    Will look forward to seeing some better opinion polling on the riots.

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  36. Henry

    As a frequent visitor to India, I agree that poverty does not create violence

    It does of course along with all sorts of other things – food riots have been common for example as well as ones relating to slum clearance (with nowhere for the poor to go). India also has a long history of inter-communal violence which can often disguise economic issues. What happens isn’t in always in the news – here is a list of this years riot’s (worldwide), I doubt any of us have heard of more than a handful -and that would be higher this year than normal because of the Arab Spring:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots#2011

    There will be others that don’t even make the international press – especially in India, China, Central Africa.

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  37. AmberStar @ David B

    I wasn’t aware that there was any serious talk of bringing back Laws – they couldn’t could they?
    ———————————————-
    There has been recurrent talk based on the assumption that he will come back sometime and that the question is not if, but when, and whether the time right yet or not.

    The notion that there are not several, even several dozen MP’s fit to do the job is astonishingly innumerate for someone on a polling site.

    Haven’t you heard the conundrum about the two men who are talking, and their IQ differs by 100 points? The question is “Who are they?”*

    We are, most of us, just average, or not so very different. The number of people whom I have known, (as distinct from having simply met them) whose intellect is significantly superior, is probably no more than 10.

    I can only identify half of them, and at the other end of the spectrum where there should be about the same number, I am certain about only two, but some of the latter group need help with their daily lives and are out of sight.

    The notion that DL is so bright he is irreplacable is self-evidently nonsense. If he were that clever he wouldn’t have got caught would he?

    The explanation is here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

    The Image of Carl Friedrich Gauss was on the old 10DM note, and I used to carry one in my wallet to explain the matter to any politician I met.

    Just look at the image on the URL and think about what level of demand we should provide for in tertiary education, and how we can provide it.

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  38. Tinged Fringe
    Henry,
    Did you see IDS on Channel 4?s riot debate show?
    Tackled the issues far better than any other Cabinet member. If the coalition wish to restore trust and confidence then they need him to be the public face of the govvernment

    No I did not see him. But I agree from past performances on this subject.

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  39. Roger Mexico

    It does of course along with all sorts of other things – food riots have been common for example as well as ones relating to slum clearance (with nowhere for the poor to go). India also has a long history of inter-communal violence which can often disguise economic issues.

    I would suggest that although there have been 19 riot deaths recorded this year, they are not all poverty related, and of course they have a population of over one billion and their poverty is absolute rather than relative poverty.

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