Back in August there was a YouGov poll showing that 30% of people thought that Dr David Kelly was murdered. Following the publication of the post-mortem this week we asked if people thought it was right to release the post-mortem report (58% did) and repeated the same question as we asked in August on how people thought David Kelly died. The proportion of people thinking he was murdered has halved to 14%, the proportion thinking he committed suicide has gone from 32% to 52%. Just over a third said don’t know.


301 Responses to “14% still think David Kelly was murdered”

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  1. Neil A

    “I thought the current devolution arrangements were (at the time) intended to command majority support in Scotland and preserve the Union?”

    Whatever gave you that idea? Scots weren’t asked which areas of Government should be returned. We simply got a choice between the status quo and having our own Parliament to run those matters which were already devolved (but under the control of whichever Secretary of State the largest UK party appointed).

    Of course, Labour/LDs hoped that their settlement would be enough, but that’s a very different matter.

    “Surely the nats just want to keep pushing the goalposts further and further apart until they can’t miss?”

    What actually matters is what the Scottish people want as their constitutional position – and whether that position is acceptable to the other nations in the UK. Then we take it from there.

  2. Howard

    Even the London Evening Standard does typos. On that 2006 poll they said

    Sir Menzies Campbell, the Lib Dem leader, said: “Once evolution has bedded down in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland it would be entirely appropriate to consider the role of MPs from all three countries at Westminster.”

    Of course, they might not have understood that “evolution” and “devolution” are not the same thing, and really thought that we needed to evolve further in order to become Londoners! :-)

  3. Eoin

    “Great Britain” is the largest island in the British Isles. “Lesser Britain” is Brittany.

    Nothing to do with greatness, just size.

  4. OldNat,

    i would by no means discount that it was not a typo. Aint you read punch?

  5. Eoin
    even our Presbys would support abandoning ship (HMS Britannia of course)

    That would have been my solution (and that of the majority of Englishmen) to the ‘troubles’ in 1969.

    Oh, not to have had ‘who does Mister Faulkner think he is?’ every night on our TV screens from the 70s onwards, a minor inconvenience though, compared with the sons of Sheffield and Southampton who perished and were maimed on our behalf?

    Enforced independence for unwanted provinces? A new international right for oppressed peoples such as we English.

    Let’s have a poll ASAP.

  6. Howard,

    It would be a deriliction of duty for the good working people of Glasgow and Belfast to abandon our friends in Liverpool, Birmingham, Newcastle and Manchester. Unless we had the fullest assurances, you’d not shaft them in your new majoritarian Con Lib state, I am afraid we must hang in there :)

  7. I believe North Britain was used to mean Scotland in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    I understood that Britain meant England and Wales, and Great Britain meant the whole mainland.

    Confusing.

  8. We’ve had this “geography of Britain” debate before. I go even further and assert that “British Isles” (including Eire) is a geographical description that neither denotes English imperialism nor is obviated by the removal of it.

  9. Pete B,

    Yes that is correct :)

    The Romans selected all three words

    Hibernia
    Caledonia
    Britannia

    You lot were stuck with the bottom one, us lot with the top on and OldNat’s crew with the middle…

    Imperialist Cartographers have sought to gerymander this out of history ever since… but Linguists and Historians won’t let them :)

  10. I knew Pete B would join us. We need a fresh poll on the subject and the concept of forcing freedom on people who wish to remain enslaved (albeit with huge handouts) is clearly a breakthrough, which is typical of the enterprise capable of arising in this very special portion of the sceptered isle.

    I’ll break out into ‘Jerusalem’ shortly.

    Captcha code is UK3Y! (UK throw away)

  11. Interesting discussion on Sugaring the Pill (R4) about trials conducted for NICE into paying expectant mothers to give up smoking, crack addicts to stay clean etc. The payments are a relatively small but significant token of encouragement to effect sucessful behavior modification.

    It looks likely that NICE will find some of these initiatives to be cost effect treatments which should become widely available, however, there is doubt whether rational policy making will survive the newly percieved mood of public opposition to undeserved rewards.

  12. I believe that Scotland and probably Northern Ireland were 5000 miles further north when England and Wales were hovering around the south pole. Then the tectonic plates moved around so that we crashed into each other somewhere around the equator, and moved northward together. Personally I’d like to hang on to everyone in the 4 nations…. however devolved ….

  13. Eoin

    “It would be a deriliction of duty for the good working people of Glasgow and Belfast to abandon our friends in Liverpool, Birmingham, Newcastle and Manchester.”

    Shame on you, sir! You are willing to abandon the good working people of New York to right wing government, when (if we became a state of the USA) we could add our votes to theirs and share their misery when right wing governments are still elected! :-)

  14. Perhaps the best political stance would have been to go to the new system of capping HB but not affecting the present beneficiaries.

    Scenes of tearfuf ‘evictees’ are filling my political mind.

  15. oldnat – I thought that was what you were implying! ;)

    I thought you were saying “If I came from elsewhere in Britain, I’d support devolving more power to Scotland to stop Scottish Independence”, implying that if you weren’t Scottish you’d automatically oppose Scottish independence (which would have rather surprised me), as opposed to “If I supported the Union, I’d support devolving more power to Scotland to stop Scottish Independence”, which is, as you say, rather more straightforward.

    Should have known better than to think you were being clumsy with references to what was British, etc.

  16. Howard

    The “handouts” come from Ex Regio, and London is the largest recipient of same.

  17. Old Nat
    The Dutch would like to re-incorporate New Amsterdam (which even many New Yorkers still call it)

  18. OldNat,

    Hmm… did you knw that the Fenians once invaded Canada? 1867? they sent them back to New York on a train (after a warm meal of course). But yes, Bostonians, And New Yorkers would be welcome in a new federation :)

  19. Anthony

    There is a terminological problem when discussing the various nationalisms in the UK, on a UK (or in this case GB, since that’s what the polling covers) blog.

    In Scotland, there isn’t a problem in using “British Nationalists” to refer to those who want to continue with the UK state. Where many posters are English, however, I found that using that term caused great offence as it was assumed that loyalty to the BNP was meant.

    Hence, I almost never use it here (and use Brit instead). When I used it earlier in this thread, I was using it to another Scot and in a context which allowed it to be interpreted either way as a “bad thing”.

  20. Richard

    From one Richard to another,i agree the public sector can & my opinion will absorb the public sector job losses.

    All these Richard’s,even i am getting confused!

    To other matters.for all those whining about our budget cuts,spare a though for the Irish.It was revealed yesterday they are to push through 15bn euro’s of cuts,rather than the 7.5bn expected.

    15bn euro,is 50% of their total tax revenue in one year,they propose these cuts through 2014,on top of austerity already announced.

  21. Eoin,

    The romans did indeed select three words,

    Hibernia, an Island of Britannia
    Albion, an Island of Britannia
    and Britannia, meaning the group of islands that included the Hibernia and Albion.

    They later, after invading Albion, but not Hibernia, adopted the province name of “Britannia”. They intended this to include Scotland as well, but they were booted out thereof and began to name it after a local tribe, the Caledonii.

  22. Howard,

    The Indians would like Manhattan back too, I’m sure they’ll happily hand you your 50 guilders back if ever you reincorporate it ;-)

  23. Gonna stick my neck out here. I think the blues will hit 42% cos of the unexpected good news about the UK economy. 8-)

  24. We predicting? I go for 40/39/12/9

  25. YG Guesstimation (for tonight)

    Blue 42%
    Red 38%
    Yellow 12%
    Others 8%

  26. Neil,

    Lol.

    Hibernia then… tell me what does it mean? How did it come to be associated with the wooded mass than the Romans chose not to invade.

    Do you know?

  27. I’m game

    41:37:13

  28. Is DC going to sell the UK down the river on our EU rebate?

    As i have stated before i am a UKIP/tory,i do not trust DC on the EU.

    It is well known however that the EU wants to do away with the UK rebate.I hope DC is not going to stitch the UK up,by claiming victory on not having a rise in our contributions,while at the same time allowing the EU to abolish our rebate.

    UK Net contributions to the EU.

    2009-£3bn
    2010-£6bn
    2011-£9bn
    2013-£10bn

    without our rebate-£13bn per annum by 2013.

    This is becoming a bad joke.

    It is now reasonable to expect our rebate will be scapped,we will be paying £13bn a year to the EU from 2013 & £12bn a yr in overseas aid.

    Approx £25bn a yr combined,what are we smoking in this country?

  29. Neil,

    I am too tired for cultural imperialism this eve..

    read the first line of this wkipedia entry… Deduce from that please you associate Caledonia as being ‘IN’ Britannia.

    h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonia

  30. Prediction
    I thought there would have been crossover by now. I’ll try
    40 40 11 9

  31. Eoin,

    I have no idea where Hibernia comes from. From a quick web-trawl the best guess seems to be from an old Celtic word Iveriu or something?

  32. richard

    why do you want to talk about peanuts

  33. Richard

    “what are we smoking in this country?” – Scotland’s oil!

  34. i’m glad to see we are including others tonight

    41, 38, 13, 8

  35. Neil A,

    It is the feminine form of the Roman word for winter. we were deemed too wooded to wet and too cold for the North Africans and Meditereans to invade….

    It began as a nickname as soon came into common usage… in describing Ireland as a feminine country, it later, in part, contributed to the backlash of hyper masculinity in Ireland but that’s another story.

  36. Eoin,

    This is a very comprehensive Wikipedia meditation on the whole issue.

    h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute

  37. oldnat

    ha ha ha ha ha

    toxic fumes are affecting all of us

  38. am i too late for the HB debate

    i dare say it will come around again

  39. Oldnat

    England’s gas!!

    Richard in Norway

    Yea! Soon we will be talking about real money.

  40. Neil A,

    I’ve read that before… Cultural imperialism permeates all ages. It was an old tactic of the Romans in their aspiration to control a land to bribe a local tribe… the Parisi, or the Praha in Bohemia, the examples are plentiful.

    Consider this for a moment, whose records are likely to dominate? And if the Romans included Scotland in their ‘Britannia’ why build a wall?

    This kind of stuff annoys me because if feeds nationalism on the other side… if the culturla imperialist let be, then the gaelic revivalists would not have an axe to grind…

  41. richard

    real money…………are we talking euros

  42. Neil A,

    Read this link if you get a chance, purchase it if you are inclined. The term ‘British’ was barely used in England pre-Industrial Revolution.

    h ttp://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K38rAQAAIAAJ&q=linda+colley+britons&dq=linda+colley+britons&hl=en&ei=S4rITMHMKIiZOrbMhPAI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA

  43. Richard

    “England’s gas!!” – True, but I would never have been so rude. :-)

    Eoin

    There is more than one Roman wall. Antonine’s Wall runs from the Forth to the Clyde. Caledonia properly refers to Scotland north of the Forth – also known as Pictland.

    All cultural imperialism isn’t necessarily bad, if others see that culture as fashionable, and worth copying. After all, why are we “Scots”, when the original Scots came from your part of the world?

  44. OldNat,

    Yes I agree. Ire/Scot- all the one in my view…

    _______

    Neil A,

    tell me if you can get ‘authenticated’ in to read this article. It is a summar of the book, it would save you a lot of time and effort, instead of having to read the full thing.

    h ttp://www.jstor.org/stable/175883?&Search=yes&term=%22Linda+Colley%22&list=hide&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Dau%253A%2522Linda%2BColley%2522%26wc%3Don%26acc%3Don&item=5&ttl=40&returnArticleService=showFullText

  45. oldNat,

    Read this page, it is very well put.

    h ttp://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CaHtD5DiWzwC&pg=PA174&dq=peter+scot+britain+is+an+invented+nation&hl=en&ei=yIvITNSuFsKaOov9hNgN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

  46. @Eoin,

    Hmm, that’s not really my reading of it. It all seems to stem from the Greeks coining the term Pretanic to describe the Celts, who were the inhabitants of both islands.

    It seems odd that the actions of the Greeks and Romans should be interpreted now as English imperialism, when there were no Angles, and no England at the time.

    I absolutely accept that in modern times loyalist Brits have pushed the term “The British Isles” in the interests of national (ie British) cohesion, but from the evidence I’ve read they simply reestablished it rather than reinventing it.

    It seems to me that rejection of the term is a modern geopolitical artefact. Had “King Billy” lost at the Boyne I imagine that the Irish would be enthusiastic subjects of a Catholic, British crown and “British Isles” wouldn’t be a term that caused any division at all.

  47. Eoin

    Yes. I’ve read that.

    Neil A

    Things are far more complex than a single battle! :-)

  48. 42,36,12

  49. Neil A,

    Reread my posts… I dont think I referred to English Imperialists… What made you assume that? No the Romans were very much capable of that themselves.
    Greeks are an outstanding irrelevance. They just kept good books :)

    We are destine to disagree on this. I saw the map the spanish had for the Armaad invasion

    I held in my hand the first 16century map enshrined the shired county system in Ulster…

    Neither I can aassure you had British Isles on them lol.

  50. @Jay Blanc

    ‘That’s an… Interesting claim. Currently, LHA rates are *defined* at the median of local rents. For your claim to be correct, it would have to mean that either a huge proportion of private rents go to those on housing benefit.’

    The LHA rates are defined as the median of private sector free-market rents. Tenancies subject to HB are excluded from the calculation as they are deemed to be not freely negotiated between landlord and tenant because the benefit level affects that process.

    HB levels can therefore be 90% of LHA as they are separate systems. Non-claimant average rents can be 90% of the LHA median rent especially as there are still some extremely low rents from old regulated tenancies. I don’t know if that clears up your doubt.

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