There are two discussion threads for the new poll – please keep partisan arguments, whoops of delight and furious rants of despair to this one. Sensible non-partisan discussion of the poll is welcomed in the main thread :)


251 Responses to “YouGov/Sunday Times poll open thread”

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  1. What is John Redwood doing these days?

    What’s the betting Coulson gets fired and The Sun changes its mind?

  2. Darren – If you raise the threshold from £650k to £2m, the biggest winners are those worth £2m +

  3. @Andrew Myers

    Well all I can say is that if the nation re-elects Stalin Brown then they must be completely stuipid.

    ———-

    Never mind. We all make typos.

  4. Hi all, my first post after reading the thoughts on this site for a couple of weeks.
    It will be interesting to see how DC handles this poll hiccup in his speech today. If he can make a good joke about it (which is one of his few fortes)
    it will reveal a still underlying confidence. If he cannot joke, or if it falls flat, then I think we can be sure the Tories are really panicking….

  5. @Cliff

    Actually part of me wants Labour to be re-elected just so they have to face the disaster they have caused in the first place.

    ———-

    Cliff, I dont want to just single you out.. so others who feel the same as you do please feel free to respond as well.

    The “disaster” started in the USA. With the sub-prime crash. You can say the roots of it go back to… where? Reaganism? Bill Clinton? It’s up to you.

    But none of that was the doing of Brown.

    The global financial meltdown has more or less busted Iceland and Greece.

    That wasn’t the doing of Brown.

    And so on…

    Now, please, tell me how I am wrong and how it is indeed Brown’s fault.

  6. David,

    Social Democracy has worked and continues to work in many countries. I think you’re suffering from the idea that Brown is somehow a Communist like Stalin as has already been mentioned in this thread. It’s as ridiculous as comparing the Tories to Fascists.

    From Wiki:-

    In many cases, social democratic parties are the dominant (India, United Kingdom, Portugal) or second-placed (Italy, Sweden, Germany) players within their respective political systems, though in some cases they are minor parties (Canada, Ireland, Russia). The United States is the only industrial nation that does not currently possess an official major social democratic party, although many consider large portions of the Green Party to be social democratic.

  7. God help us if Brown wins

  8. Mike Smithson on Political Betting is now pushing hard on the story that the polls are incorrectly weighted/the poll result was changed/there’s a conspiracy!

  9. David

    It’s capitalism that isn’t working. Just because Labour is in office does NOT mean we live in a socialist society. Most people understand that.

  10. Barnaby

    Capitalism by definition needs capitalists – wealth generators. Brown has bloated this country with public servants and non-jobs. Unless the country starts making things ie income generated by the private industries, there will be no money for the public service.

    Capitalism has worked for the last 200 years.

  11. There is only one thing worse than having a Labour government for the next ten years – and that is having Stalin Brown as PM.

    When the country finally goes bankrupt around 2015 with a 2 Trillion GBP debt don’t say you weren’t warned.

  12. Steven Wheeler (Lab)

    The examples you quote are hardly shining examples of social democracy. Portugal is in an economic mess only slightly better than Greece (another socialist country doing badly).

    India has a bigger rich poor divide than Britain. The UK is hardly democratic when the ruling party has over 50% of the seats from 36% of the vote an an unelected PM and effective deputy PM.

    As you say they are second in Germany and Canada which have nowhere near our debt problems. Italy changes government almost every year.

    The UK is not quite socialist yet (that is why it is not quite totally ruined) but it is moving towards being a Stalinist state.

  13. Andrew Myers

    Do you think Britain will last to 2015 under Brown? Portsmouth FC has a better chance.

  14. This latest opinion poll is fantastic news for foxes and NHS cancer patients.

  15. Trust the people – they aren’t stupid. Gordon’s time is up.

  16. I think it’s really a sign of desperation when people start calling Brown horrid names. Pretty juvenile too.

    Still if Labour goes ahead in the polls – there’s a good chance of a new Labour Governement.

    Well done Sue -keep up the good work ;-)

  17. Don’t people understand that if they don’t vote the way that a bit over a third of how other people are going to vote, then it will destroy the country! The immediate day after the election, the IMF will swoop in and Reposes Our Houses! Stock markets will crash, then explode! The Pound will be replaced with a Barter System! Every NHS Hospital will become filled with Zombies! Northern marginals will see their Canals plagued by Trout with Lasers on their Heads!

  18. Al J – Nope, it’s just the sign of a thread with the comments policy off. No matter what the polls show I have to moderate lots of comments calling party leaders juvenile names.

  19. Brown’s and Stalin’s ideologies are identical – what do you think he is trying to do by bringing in AV?

    Brown is only interested in power – no interest at all in democracy or debate. Anyone who disagrees is smeared. The man wants to stay in power forever.

    Hence the nickname.

    If anyone wishies to present evidence to the contrary then I am all ears.

  20. @ SUE MARSH

    Yeh, I know you called it the same as me from the get go & always had a gut feel that Labour could win it.

    I was just bigging up my crystal ball cos people don’t seem to be able to believe YouGov! I mean, really… what have the CONS ever done for the real people of Britain?

    Folks like TREVORSDEN seem to believe that saying all LAB voters are benefit claimants & public sector workers will endear the CONS to voters.

    It simply insults everybody’s intelligence.

    I’m standing by our joint forecast. Even if we see a slight rise for CONS as some Ukippers return, I think LAB & LD will stay on an over all rising trend.

    My dream for 2010 – LAB victory with a small majority on the biggest share of the vote. LD generally back LAB in a relationship of mutual trust & respect.

    Following that for 2015, I believe LAB & LD will wipe the floor with CONS.

  21. @ JAY BLANC

    LOL

    Whereas what will really happen if LAB win is that two Old Etonian Chancers will go away with their tail between their legs.

    That’s it. The sky will not fall – we will get on with working, saving, some belt tightening; there will be some recalibration of our economy & our values.

    It’ll be tough but worthwhile. This poll, even if it’s a bit premature, makes feel pretty optimistic about the challenges that lie ahead.

  22. So let’s have 5 more years of Gordon Brown so that

    1/ The gap between rich and poor can widen further.
    2/ Education standards can fall further.
    3/ The long term unemployed can become even more unemployable on their generous benefits
    4/ The target-driven NHS can create even more Stafford hospitals. This is a direct result of government policy and more of this stuff will leave us languishing even further down than 22nd (behind Latvia) in the WHO table. Come on Burnham, have a public enquiry won’t you?
    5/ The target-driven police force can become even less efficacious
    6/ The army of unsackable public service employees can grow and grow leading to the public sector debt causing the IMF to repeat the Dennis Healy moment of the 70s.

    Of course the gold reserves went at a knock down price so they can not be used to reduce the debt. The NHS IT programme was binned after £12billion was spent so that can not be used either. Then there is the chronic debt from PFI and money poured away on QUANGOS and audit by management agencies. How are we going to pay for this; I know let’s tax the rich; oh hold on, that will lead to a reduction in revenue but it may win a few votes from the jelous and leave the tories with a conundrum.

    We don’t need another 5 minutes of this man never mind 5 years. He is doing well because he has manipulated the economy so that even in a recession those with a job have not hurt in the pocket. In a years time it will be different and we will all be suffering no matter who is in.

    Come on then Amber Star and all you Labour apologists answer with facts instead of slogans.

  23. Anthony

    I didn’t know – is it normally that bad? lol

    Don’t think I’ve ever been moded for bad language or name-calling – so was blissfully unaware.

    Roll on next poll ;-)

  24. Right, time to take my place in the circular firing squad…

    Whoever in Tory HQ had the bright idea of launching a campaign on “family values” needs to be shot. The idea that government should be dictating how people live their private lives is just wrong – not only is social conservatism is a vote loser, but it also jars horribly with Cameron’s small government message.

    Next in the firing line is whoever dropped green issues from the agenda. For the Conservatives to have dropped this plank is idiotic beyond belief. First of all, it was an issue on which the majority of the public supported them. More importantly however, it was the biggest sign that the party had changed, and by dropping the environmental plank the Tories are playing into Labour’s narrative that “liberal conservatism” was just a mask.

    For my third and final shot, I’ll take out Norman Tebbit, as I imagine he’ll be the first to jump up and demand that the Tories lurch to the right. Any idea that this latest poll shows that voters want the Tories to be more right-wing is nonsense. For every vote the Tories gain on the right, they’ll lose ten in the centre. If Cameron starts coming out with headline-grabbing policies on immigration, patriotism etc. then he’ll see many of his voters, myself included, defect to the Liberal Democrats en masse.

    God, I can’t believe we’ve ended up in this mess. ¬_¬

  25. I don’t for a minute think that the Tories will answer all our problems but I wonder if all the gloaters on this thread actually understand the scale of the mess that the country is in and precisely what 5 more years of Gordon Brown’s reckless borrowing will do to us.

    Just wonder where all the hundreds of billions that we will have to find in interest and loan repayments will come from? Just where will it be created?

    Have any of the “clever” Labour gloaters stopped to think?

  26. Actually I can believe – to an extent – that the Conservatives have got themselves into this mess.

    David Cameron needed a silver bullet to kill off the November 2007 election by promising a referendum on lisbon, thus drawing on board disaffected Conservatives and UKIP leaners. Unfortunately the thing had to be ratified one day and indeed it was, and then Cameron had to unpick his cast iron guarantee.
    Whatever he did, he was going to look silly. That is one reason why we are here.

    David Cameron’s problem is that unlike the 1980’s Conservatives, he cannot guarantee having the vast majority of right-leaning support (apart from some oddball national fronters) that Margaret Thatcher could bank on. Thus, he has to stretch the meaning of Conservativism almost to breaking point in order to go looking for votes left of centre. In doing so, it tends to contradict the purpose of the Conservatives: the party of (fixing the) economy. David Cameron is forced to give out a mixed message. One minute he is wearing a Mrs Thatcher wig, the next, a Blair mask with a Brownish wig. That is another reason why we are here.

    Then there is George Osborne vs Alistair Darling vs Vince Cable. I think the general public are well aware who is worst candidate for Chancellor, with the most unconvincing message for both party supporters and general public. That is another reason why we are here.

  27. Andrew Myers –

    Brown’s and Stalin’s ideologies are identical

    This comment is a total disgrace. If their ideologies were identical you wouldn’t be around to make a comment like this.
    I have always refused to compare Tories with Fascists and it would take a lot more than a name-calling bully like you to cause that to change. Either give some serious evidence that the policies of Stalin are in some way similar to those of Gordon Brown or be quiet.

  28. I said months ago, the more we see of the Cameron team the better it will prove for the government. Tax cuts for the richest and a rise in unemployment “a price worth paying” as a Tory said are not the policies for the thinking people in this country. And most of us do not think that the National Health Service is a “sixty year mistake.” as another senior Tory believes.

  29. @ Barnaby JL Marder

    You clearly do not read the press reports about how this man behaves. And you call me a “name calling bully”!!!

    Give Brown a completely free run (in other words as Stalin had) and do you honestly think that there would be much difference in 20-30 years time? The only diference is that we still have a bit of democracy in this country although it is being rapidly eroded.

    And no I won’t “be quiet” just because my view disagrees with yours.

  30. Cameron’s ‘Patriotic Voters Vote Tory’ speech seems misguided to say the least.

    Attempting to browbeat voters won’t work, and I can’t understand why Coulson thinks it will. Perhaps he has the mindset that he should treat the electorate like he treated his news room, and bully them till they give the result he wants.

    Perhaps he listens a little too much to those in the party who say the same kind of thing as posters on this thread, yelling about how the Hoi Poloi don’t understand the Peril They Are In.

  31. @Andrew Myers

    I have yet to read any news reports of Brown starting a party purge, establishing gulags, or having the Blairites assassinated.

  32. When Andrew Myers questions the current level of debt does he think it would have been better had the economy been left to sink with the result that many millions of people would have been out of a job? Even the leader of the capitalist system, the United States followed Gordon Browns lead and bailed out the banks.
    Does he also believe the myth the the last Tory government left a secure level of borrowing after eighteen years in office? Please check the figures, they are available on line. and it is a great pity that the facts are not more widely known.

  33. YES! Labour has the policy. Tories are fat cats, not interested in the masses, the hard-working familes of this country. I love how David Cameron always tires to blame the economy purely on Brown. It is a world-wide problem – one person cannot be appointed for all the economic problems faced. Cameron’s snubs are coming to a halt. Brown has the policy to secure jobs, the nhs, and education in this country. Plus his policies have been supported by major financial bodies in this country. Cameron, you lose!

  34. Andrew Myers

    Could you tell us how many political prisoners Gordon Brown has locked up please?

    If you can’t mention any by name we’ll know your ideas are a bit odd. Thank you.

  35. CAMERON: For the first time in CONS history we are the party of the NHS.

    Any other LABOUR achievements you’d like to take credit for?

  36. CAMERON speaks warmly for MULTI – CULTURALISM in the UK.

    Any other LABOUR achievements you’d like to take credit for?

  37. The Tories just don’t get it, no matter how low they go. The puerile name calling of Brown, is an electoral boost for Labour. No longer are these puerile comments restricted to blogs and forums, they are in the MSM. One of their supporters today, the NOTW, are even likening Brown to Hitler.

  38. One of their supporters today, the NOTW, are even likening Brown to Hitler.

    Seriously? You are kidding us!!!

  39. CAMERON: We will unleash the forces of business (not hell) by reducing Corporation Tax, Small business tax & NIC for first 10 employees of a new business.

    Whilst cutting the deficit by cutting spending without harming the recovery; this will all happen because Dave is a salesman & Britain is open for business.

  40. Wow!!!!!!

    Cameron just admitted that he himself, sees himself as a salesman.

    Dave, when they said ‘honesty’, I don’t think they meant this kind of ‘honesty’.

  41. CAMERON: Back on the Broken Britain, Family Values message. He will achieve this telling licensed premises to stop selling alcohol to people who are under-age.

    Bloody brilliant, Dave. There’s already a law against selling to under-age drinkers. And it’s enforced – I’m ancient & I have to show id to buy alcohol in many shops.

  42. CAMERON: Community schools. Charities should be allowed to run schools. Education will be fixed by children wearing uniforms, standing up when an adult enters the room & being rigorously disciplined.

    Then they’ll be ready to join Gordon Brown’s Hitler Youth ;-)

  43. When I hear of Cameron talking about being a salesman, and the UK is open for business… I wonder what national assets they’ll be selling off this time around.

  44. I’m still waiting for CAMERON to say anything that he didn’t say at the last party conference.

    He did acknowledge that OSBORNE needs/ will have back up from KEN CLARK.

    So far, that’s it.

  45. Come on down to Discount Dave’s House of Common Prices! Remember our special 1/3 off prices for British Rail, well we’ve got your Cheap Bank Shares now! The Royal Mail for less than a Royal Price! Coming soon, privatisation of the Job Centres!

    Discount Dave’s House of Common Prices, accepting all major credit cards and overseas non-dom donations, never knowingly undersold!

  46. CAMERON: Our country is looking down a dark tunnel but there is light at the end of it.

    CONS have a sense of optimism, radicalism, it’s time for a change, we’re all in this together, Gordon is a moron la la la.

    Let’s get out there & win it for Britain!!! What a guy ;-)

  47. Amber Star:
    Was it “rigorously disciplined” or perhaps “regularly disciplined”?

    Oh, I vaguely remember something like “short, sharp shock” treatment from the early 80s. Good idea to resurrect an oh so discredited idea from an earlier Con gov. It’ll play well.

  48. Amber Star:
    So, has DC repeated the idea of selling of the bank shares at half price to the public?

    This is one of the most crass things I’ve heard. I’m no economist, but surely the gov should be seeking the full market rate otherwise WE lose a slice of our investment. This will play well, too.

    It sounds like DC is attempting to shore up the CON core vote?!

  49. HAGUE, asked about polls, witters about marginals still being pro-Tory.

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