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	<title>Comments on: The mystique of private polling</title>
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	<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343</link>
	<description>Independent Survey and Polling News</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591161</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591161</guid>
		<description>I am amused to see different opinion pollsters being compared to consultations with a hospital consultant. You imply that you are getting a different or better opinion if you pay for it. This is, I assure you, not the case. A consultant will give you the same opinion wherever you see them, in public or in private.

The trick in the public sector (NHS) is to actually see the consultant. If you don&#039;t then your simile may stand up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am amused to see different opinion pollsters being compared to consultations with a hospital consultant. You imply that you are getting a different or better opinion if you pay for it. This is, I assure you, not the case. A consultant will give you the same opinion wherever you see them, in public or in private.</p>
<p>The trick in the public sector (NHS) is to actually see the consultant. If you don&#8217;t then your simile may stand up.</p>
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		<title>By: NBeale</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591130</link>
		<dc:creator>NBeale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591130</guid>
		<description>Sadly many journalists are statistically illiterate.  But note what the DG of the IoD says: &quot;The whole conference, even after Brown&#039;s speech, was very subdued. Everyone seems to be expecting defeat at the coming election, with no real belief that anything can be done about it.&quot;  Bit like Trafalgar really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly many journalists are statistically illiterate.  But note what the DG of the IoD says: &#8220;The whole conference, even after Brown&#8217;s speech, was very subdued. Everyone seems to be expecting defeat at the coming election, with no real belief that anything can be done about it.&#8221;  Bit like Trafalgar really.</p>
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		<title>By: Seal Pup</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591088</link>
		<dc:creator>Seal Pup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591088</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say Scunthorpe&#039;s quite likely to go since Mr Morley&#039;s due before the beak.

Worsley &amp; Eccles South also seems to be likely to leave the loving embrace of the party.

Stoke on Trent South could see Labour&#039;s vote being sappered by the P N B, facilitating a Tory smash n grab.

I don&#039;t see the sense in assuming that the swing will be largely monopolar and very 20th century; I think it&#039;s up for grabs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say Scunthorpe&#8217;s quite likely to go since Mr Morley&#8217;s due before the beak.</p>
<p>Worsley &amp; Eccles South also seems to be likely to leave the loving embrace of the party.</p>
<p>Stoke on Trent South could see Labour&#8217;s vote being sappered by the P N B, facilitating a Tory smash n grab.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see the sense in assuming that the swing will be largely monopolar and very 20th century; I think it&#8217;s up for grabs.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Cornish</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591062</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Cornish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591062</guid>
		<description>Labour could have problems in Vauxhall over the Olympic Games.

Why would they? Kate Hoey (is inexplicably) liked here. Polling seems to suggest that the swing has been lower in London than in other parts of the country. I think! Maybe somebody could clear this up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Labour could have problems in Vauxhall over the Olympic Games.</p>
<p>Why would they? Kate Hoey (is inexplicably) liked here. Polling seems to suggest that the swing has been lower in London than in other parts of the country. I think! Maybe somebody could clear this up?</p>
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		<title>By: Frederic Stansfield</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591030</link>
		<dc:creator>Frederic Stansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591030</guid>
		<description>One wonders, with the possible exception of the Tories, how much money the parties currently have to commission private polls, except perhaps for critical by-elections.

It should be said that several of the seats Anthony mentions are actually ones which I and others have already discussed on this site as likely to swing more than the average against Labour, e.g. Scunthorpe and Stoke on Trent South. Reasons include the high number of (male particularly?) working class voters who may be deserting Labour in  large numbers, and also the concentration of such seats in regions such as the West Midlands which may be swinging particularly hard against Labour, as Anthony’s excellent large-scale poll suggested recentl. There are understandable reasons which can be used to explain such voting behaviour plausibly, e.g. particular losses of manufacturing industry in such seats.

We will have to see what happens in seats such as Scunthorpe that are particularly caught up in expenses problems - there is a lack of precedent from a psephologist&#039;s point of view.

London seats have historically tended to swing more than average in whichever ay the political wind is blowing, which may affect Vauxhall and Hackney North and South Newington. And London seats can be affected rapidly by demographic change. I don’t know about the specific circumstances of these two seats, but it is quite possible they are in jeopardy. Labour could have problems in Vauxhall over the Olympic Games.

Actually, there are seats even in the areas Anthony describes as &quot;absolutely safe&quot; for Labour about which people posting on this site are not totally certain. These include some mining seats, such as Ashfield and possibly even some Yorkshire seats (see e.g. discussion on the Hemsworth thread), although it is more likely that Labour candidates in these seats will be returned with, for them, shockingly reduced majorities.

Further, it is difficult to disentangle from the opinion polls how far the anti-Labour swing will go to the LibDems in &quot;safe&quot; Northern seats, for instance Newcastle Upon Tyne North, where the Tories are nowhere. If the anti-Labour vote does get its collective act together, Labour does stand to lose a number of Northern English city seats - indeed the LibDems may well get win such seats whilst losing in notionally much better prospects such as three or four way Scottish marginals. There has been relevant discussion on this site on the Liverpool Wavertree thread. 

Like Anthony, I don&#039;t see a national Tory lead over Labour of 28% when the election comes as at all likely. But there are a number of seats where Labour were 25-30% ahead of the next party in 2005 which, as indicated in my discussion above, look vulnerable for particular reasons, and it is not so easy to identify which these are. I think it not unreasonable to suggest that there are only 120 Labour seats, perhaps even less, where the Government is for all practical purposes certain to retain the seat. 

To come round full circle, one reason for this state of affairs may be that the Tories currently have much better resources than Labour to gain intelligencewith which to  target their campaigns. 

P.S. for Anthony, I accidentally posted half this contribution, which has come up &quot;awaiting moderation&quot;. You may care to tidy things up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One wonders, with the possible exception of the Tories, how much money the parties currently have to commission private polls, except perhaps for critical by-elections.</p>
<p>It should be said that several of the seats Anthony mentions are actually ones which I and others have already discussed on this site as likely to swing more than the average against Labour, e.g. Scunthorpe and Stoke on Trent South. Reasons include the high number of (male particularly?) working class voters who may be deserting Labour in  large numbers, and also the concentration of such seats in regions such as the West Midlands which may be swinging particularly hard against Labour, as Anthony’s excellent large-scale poll suggested recentl. There are understandable reasons which can be used to explain such voting behaviour plausibly, e.g. particular losses of manufacturing industry in such seats.</p>
<p>We will have to see what happens in seats such as Scunthorpe that are particularly caught up in expenses problems &#8211; there is a lack of precedent from a psephologist&#8217;s point of view.</p>
<p>London seats have historically tended to swing more than average in whichever ay the political wind is blowing, which may affect Vauxhall and Hackney North and South Newington. And London seats can be affected rapidly by demographic change. I don’t know about the specific circumstances of these two seats, but it is quite possible they are in jeopardy. Labour could have problems in Vauxhall over the Olympic Games.</p>
<p>Actually, there are seats even in the areas Anthony describes as &#8220;absolutely safe&#8221; for Labour about which people posting on this site are not totally certain. These include some mining seats, such as Ashfield and possibly even some Yorkshire seats (see e.g. discussion on the Hemsworth thread), although it is more likely that Labour candidates in these seats will be returned with, for them, shockingly reduced majorities.</p>
<p>Further, it is difficult to disentangle from the opinion polls how far the anti-Labour swing will go to the LibDems in &#8220;safe&#8221; Northern seats, for instance Newcastle Upon Tyne North, where the Tories are nowhere. If the anti-Labour vote does get its collective act together, Labour does stand to lose a number of Northern English city seats &#8211; indeed the LibDems may well get win such seats whilst losing in notionally much better prospects such as three or four way Scottish marginals. There has been relevant discussion on this site on the Liverpool Wavertree thread. </p>
<p>Like Anthony, I don&#8217;t see a national Tory lead over Labour of 28% when the election comes as at all likely. But there are a number of seats where Labour were 25-30% ahead of the next party in 2005 which, as indicated in my discussion above, look vulnerable for particular reasons, and it is not so easy to identify which these are. I think it not unreasonable to suggest that there are only 120 Labour seats, perhaps even less, where the Government is for all practical purposes certain to retain the seat. </p>
<p>To come round full circle, one reason for this state of affairs may be that the Tories currently have much better resources than Labour to gain intelligencewith which to  target their campaigns. </p>
<p>P.S. for Anthony, I accidentally posted half this contribution, which has come up &#8220;awaiting moderation&#8221;. You may care to tidy things up.</p>
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		<title>By: Frederic Stansfield</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591029</link>
		<dc:creator>Frederic Stansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591029</guid>
		<description>One wonders, with the possible exception of the Tories, how much money the parties currently have to commission private polls, except perhaps for critical by-elections.

It should be said that several of the seats Anthony mentions are actually ones which I and others have already discussed on this site as likely to swing more than the average against Labour, e.g. Scunthorpe and Stoke on Trent South. Reasons includethe high number of (male particularly?) working class voters who may be deserting Labour in particular, and also the concentration of such seats in regions such as the West Midlands which may be swinging particularly hard against Labour, as Anthony&#039;s excellent large-scale poll suggested recently, and for understandable reasons, e.g. particular losses of manufacturing industry in such seats.

We will have to see what happens in seats such as Scunthorpe that are particulalry caught up in expenses problems.

London seats have historically tended to swing more than average in whichever ay the political wind is blowing, which may affect Vauxhall and Hackney North and South Newington. And London seats can be affected rapidly by demographic change.  I don&#039;t know about the specific cirucmstances of these two seats, but it is</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One wonders, with the possible exception of the Tories, how much money the parties currently have to commission private polls, except perhaps for critical by-elections.</p>
<p>It should be said that several of the seats Anthony mentions are actually ones which I and others have already discussed on this site as likely to swing more than the average against Labour, e.g. Scunthorpe and Stoke on Trent South. Reasons includethe high number of (male particularly?) working class voters who may be deserting Labour in particular, and also the concentration of such seats in regions such as the West Midlands which may be swinging particularly hard against Labour, as Anthony&#8217;s excellent large-scale poll suggested recently, and for understandable reasons, e.g. particular losses of manufacturing industry in such seats.</p>
<p>We will have to see what happens in seats such as Scunthorpe that are particulalry caught up in expenses problems.</p>
<p>London seats have historically tended to swing more than average in whichever ay the political wind is blowing, which may affect Vauxhall and Hackney North and South Newington. And London seats can be affected rapidly by demographic change.  I don&#8217;t know about the specific cirucmstances of these two seats, but it is</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Senior</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591026</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Senior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591026</guid>
		<description>Anthony , the Yougov website gives data tables for a poll on Afghanistan for Sky News which you don&#039;t appear to have covered . It was taken immediately following the Channel 4 poll - 5th/6th November but the questions are phrased slightly differently . The sample size was virtually the same as the Channel 4 poll . There is also a GE voting question but no published voting prediction . By comparison with Channel 4&#039;s figures the voting intention would have been Con 40 Lab 26 LibDem 19 .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony , the Yougov website gives data tables for a poll on Afghanistan for Sky News which you don&#8217;t appear to have covered . It was taken immediately following the Channel 4 poll &#8211; 5th/6th November but the questions are phrased slightly differently . The sample size was virtually the same as the Channel 4 poll . There is also a GE voting question but no published voting prediction . By comparison with Channel 4&#8217;s figures the voting intention would have been Con 40 Lab 26 LibDem 19 .</p>
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		<title>By: Jonboy</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591023</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591023</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t Labour always play this trick before an election - downplay expectations so when the result comes in slightly better they can say how well they&#039;ve done?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t Labour always play this trick before an election &#8211; downplay expectations so when the result comes in slightly better they can say how well they&#8217;ve done?</p>
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		<title>By: John B Dick</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591022</link>
		<dc:creator>John B Dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591022</guid>
		<description>The old 10DM note celebrated Carl Freidrich Gauss and I kept one in my wallet for years in case I needed to explain the basics to a politician.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The old 10DM note celebrated Carl Freidrich Gauss and I kept one in my wallet for years in case I needed to explain the basics to a politician.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Cornish</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2343/comment-page-1#comment-591017</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Cornish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=2343#comment-591017</guid>
		<description>@ JOHN B Dick

Or that Journalists reporting on it aren;&#039;t either. Or the Tories gloating over these figures over on ConHome aren&#039;t either!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ JOHN B Dick</p>
<p>Or that Journalists reporting on it aren;&#8217;t either. Or the Tories gloating over these figures over on ConHome aren&#8217;t either!</p>
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