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	<title>Comments on: Early Election?</title>
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	<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689</link>
	<description>Independent Survey and Polling News</description>
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		<title>By: Paul H-J</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-528854</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H-J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-528854</guid>
		<description>Having been sceptical of Brown going before 2010, I now think he may be planning for a general election on 4th June 2009 (to coincide with County Council and Euro elections).

Apart from the obvious clearing of the legislative decks, Brown appears to be hoping that the economy will have started to turn - and June would allow a reckless giveaway budget to hit pay packets before the PSBR figures begin to show up optimism of his forecasts.

Also, I notice that he is planning to bring troops home from Iraq before June - lancing the Iraq war boil once and for all.

Finally, we should not ignore the fact that Labour are practically bankrupt, so combining three elections into one is financially attractive.

If he does not go in June, then he would need to wait until October, and possibly be forced into 2010 - especially if the County / Euro elections prove a disaster.

There is an outside chance of Brown opting for March/April 2009, but he would ned to have seen several months of good polls before taking teh risk. May is not really an option having ordered the County Councils be deferred from the original date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having been sceptical of Brown going before 2010, I now think he may be planning for a general election on 4th June 2009 (to coincide with County Council and Euro elections).</p>
<p>Apart from the obvious clearing of the legislative decks, Brown appears to be hoping that the economy will have started to turn &#8211; and June would allow a reckless giveaway budget to hit pay packets before the PSBR figures begin to show up optimism of his forecasts.</p>
<p>Also, I notice that he is planning to bring troops home from Iraq before June &#8211; lancing the Iraq war boil once and for all.</p>
<p>Finally, we should not ignore the fact that Labour are practically bankrupt, so combining three elections into one is financially attractive.</p>
<p>If he does not go in June, then he would need to wait until October, and possibly be forced into 2010 &#8211; especially if the County / Euro elections prove a disaster.</p>
<p>There is an outside chance of Brown opting for March/April 2009, but he would ned to have seen several months of good polls before taking teh risk. May is not really an option having ordered the County Councils be deferred from the original date.</p>
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		<title>By: Fredeirc Stansfield</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-528067</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredeirc Stansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-528067</guid>
		<description>A remarkably thin Queen&#039;s Speech is traditionally a hint that the Government is contemplating an early - presumably May/June - General Election.  Of course, it could be that the Government was too pre-occupied with economic matters to prepare other legislation.

One matter should be of particular if there is a 2009 election. It is bad enough, in my view very bad, having General and local elections all on the same day. It would be absolutely appalling having three elections, local, general and European. It would be a recipe for chaos and spoilt votes, particularly given the large number of postal votes (regular readers will know this is another of my psephological complaints):  there is no friendly polling officer  present to see that the voter does not put papers in the wrong envelope. One result is that voting may be all over the place, not least because ordinary electors are unable to diesentangle the many issues that should really be debated.

Ad hoc introduction of American-style multiple office voting  could be used by opposition parties at the election to remind voters of issues that might otherwise have gone away about how Labour treated democracy during the parliament.  We comment on this site on ongoing points, but the actual results of the next election  will as always be affected by matters that capture public attention during the campaign (these days, providing they are raised close to the first real pollling day, the one on which postal ballot papers drop on the doormats).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A remarkably thin Queen&#8217;s Speech is traditionally a hint that the Government is contemplating an early &#8211; presumably May/June &#8211; General Election.  Of course, it could be that the Government was too pre-occupied with economic matters to prepare other legislation.</p>
<p>One matter should be of particular if there is a 2009 election. It is bad enough, in my view very bad, having General and local elections all on the same day. It would be absolutely appalling having three elections, local, general and European. It would be a recipe for chaos and spoilt votes, particularly given the large number of postal votes (regular readers will know this is another of my psephological complaints):  there is no friendly polling officer  present to see that the voter does not put papers in the wrong envelope. One result is that voting may be all over the place, not least because ordinary electors are unable to diesentangle the many issues that should really be debated.</p>
<p>Ad hoc introduction of American-style multiple office voting  could be used by opposition parties at the election to remind voters of issues that might otherwise have gone away about how Labour treated democracy during the parliament.  We comment on this site on ongoing points, but the actual results of the next election  will as always be affected by matters that capture public attention during the campaign (these days, providing they are raised close to the first real pollling day, the one on which postal ballot papers drop on the doormats).</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H-J</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-528064</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H-J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-528064</guid>
		<description>Interesting that although the recent Com Res poll gave Labour their best (relative) position for ages, with Labour within spitting distance of retaining power, it does not appear to have reignited talk of an early election.

Could that be down to caution by Brown, ruling out an early election, or amongst pollsters awaiting further evidence ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that although the recent Com Res poll gave Labour their best (relative) position for ages, with Labour within spitting distance of retaining power, it does not appear to have reignited talk of an early election.</p>
<p>Could that be down to caution by Brown, ruling out an early election, or amongst pollsters awaiting further evidence ?</p>
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		<title>By: Chas.</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-526456</link>
		<dc:creator>Chas.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-526456</guid>
		<description>Gordon Brown enjoys being PM so there is no chance he is going to give that role up before he has to, hence a 2010 GE.

We are working class in this household and I can assure everyone that all 5 of us cannot wait for NuLabour to be soundly thrashed at the next GE.

I notice some of you who say the Conservatives favout the rich, but surely without rich people we would have no jobs to go to.

There are many many reasons why NuLabour WILL lose the next GE, the economy is just one.

We in this household all intend to vote Conservative to bring sanity and pride back to our Country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon Brown enjoys being PM so there is no chance he is going to give that role up before he has to, hence a 2010 GE.</p>
<p>We are working class in this household and I can assure everyone that all 5 of us cannot wait for NuLabour to be soundly thrashed at the next GE.</p>
<p>I notice some of you who say the Conservatives favout the rich, but surely without rich people we would have no jobs to go to.</p>
<p>There are many many reasons why NuLabour WILL lose the next GE, the economy is just one.</p>
<p>We in this household all intend to vote Conservative to bring sanity and pride back to our Country.</p>
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		<title>By: Toby Perkins</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-525583</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Perkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-525583</guid>
		<description>Interesting point GB, but I think personally Gordon is focused on the job in hand and is expecting a 2010 election, and anything else is just media talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting point GB, but I think personally Gordon is focused on the job in hand and is expecting a 2010 election, and anything else is just media talk.</p>
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		<title>By: Gooey Blob</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-524996</link>
		<dc:creator>Gooey Blob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-524996</guid>
		<description>There is another argument against an early election.  Where would Brown get the money with which to fight a campaign next year?  Labour are in the worst financial position of the three biggest parties by some distance, and I don&#039;t believe most people will be considering donations to political parties while most of us are battening down the hatches for the coming storm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is another argument against an early election.  Where would Brown get the money with which to fight a campaign next year?  Labour are in the worst financial position of the three biggest parties by some distance, and I don&#8217;t believe most people will be considering donations to political parties while most of us are battening down the hatches for the coming storm.</p>
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		<title>By: Frederic Stansfield</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-524660</link>
		<dc:creator>Frederic Stansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-524660</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know much about BNP policies, and don&#039;t want to. My impression is that  the BNP attracts people with particular attitudes, which I don&#039;t share, to politics and life (this is also true of other parties) rather than people who choose a party on the basis of rational policy analysis.  Nor do I think it fair to parallel socialist parties with pre-war National Socialism, or indeed Stalinism.

However, there is a danger that objections that comparisons constitute mud-slinging or even libel will prevent sensible debate from which real lessons can be learned.

In the case of 1930s Germany, Hitler regenerated the economy by debt financed spending, under the guidance of Schacht., who was generally recognised as technically one of the most astute financial policy makers of the time, probably only second to Keynes.  Schacht in the end fell out with Hitler, was imprisoned in a concentration camp and found not guilty of war crimes at Nuremburg. Of course, Hitler spent the money on armaments. The exercise turned into a trap because Hitler needed to spend more and more on arms to prevent economic recession, which forced him (apart from his appalling ideology) into War, and specifically into territorial agression as a result of which he acquired additional resources (such as the Skoda works in Czechoslovakia). Indeed in 1939 the French and Germans hoped they might win because of  German economic collapse, and therefore that they did not need to attack militarily.

What Brown is doing is both like and unlike 1930s Germany. It is, thank goodness, different in that he is proposing to incur debt for consumer spending rather than additional expenditure on aramaments. But it is like Germany in that he is going into debt for current expenditure (albeit on tax cuts to generate spending rather than weapons purchase), rather than captial investment, e.g. on the power stations and new railways the United Kingdom desperately needs at the moment.  Brown claims that the loans he is raising will be repaid by increasing taxation when the economy has recovered. But inter-war German history suggests he may be initiating a feedback loop  whereby the UK will need to borrow more and more to prevent depression and/or, of particular relevance to this site, political discontent. 

I think it is an open question whether the adverse political and economic consequences of the current financial crisis, and of attempts to deal with it, will start to become apparent by 2010, but I believe they will be a huge problem by 2015 as things stand. And if we are not careful they could result in extremism. Further, LUKW, I have already posted on this site pointing out that serious economic crisis is what kills political parties.  If the Tories lose in 2010 with seriously deficient economic policies, Polly Toynbee is right: it could be the end for them. The same goes for Labour too. 

In my view the bottom line is that if we want long-term stability in UK voting behaviour the Government must be induced to raise money to start major capital programmes as soon as possible. There are  short-term economic advantages in trying to kickstart the economy with consumer expenditure, but the overwhelming danger is that such short-termisn will make it impossible to raise subsequent loans that will enable essential investment. If, for instance, there are everyday cuts in electricity supply in the late 2010s people aren&#039;t likely going to vote for the party or parties responsible for a very long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know much about BNP policies, and don&#8217;t want to. My impression is that  the BNP attracts people with particular attitudes, which I don&#8217;t share, to politics and life (this is also true of other parties) rather than people who choose a party on the basis of rational policy analysis.  Nor do I think it fair to parallel socialist parties with pre-war National Socialism, or indeed Stalinism.</p>
<p>However, there is a danger that objections that comparisons constitute mud-slinging or even libel will prevent sensible debate from which real lessons can be learned.</p>
<p>In the case of 1930s Germany, Hitler regenerated the economy by debt financed spending, under the guidance of Schacht., who was generally recognised as technically one of the most astute financial policy makers of the time, probably only second to Keynes.  Schacht in the end fell out with Hitler, was imprisoned in a concentration camp and found not guilty of war crimes at Nuremburg. Of course, Hitler spent the money on armaments. The exercise turned into a trap because Hitler needed to spend more and more on arms to prevent economic recession, which forced him (apart from his appalling ideology) into War, and specifically into territorial agression as a result of which he acquired additional resources (such as the Skoda works in Czechoslovakia). Indeed in 1939 the French and Germans hoped they might win because of  German economic collapse, and therefore that they did not need to attack militarily.</p>
<p>What Brown is doing is both like and unlike 1930s Germany. It is, thank goodness, different in that he is proposing to incur debt for consumer spending rather than additional expenditure on aramaments. But it is like Germany in that he is going into debt for current expenditure (albeit on tax cuts to generate spending rather than weapons purchase), rather than captial investment, e.g. on the power stations and new railways the United Kingdom desperately needs at the moment.  Brown claims that the loans he is raising will be repaid by increasing taxation when the economy has recovered. But inter-war German history suggests he may be initiating a feedback loop  whereby the UK will need to borrow more and more to prevent depression and/or, of particular relevance to this site, political discontent. </p>
<p>I think it is an open question whether the adverse political and economic consequences of the current financial crisis, and of attempts to deal with it, will start to become apparent by 2010, but I believe they will be a huge problem by 2015 as things stand. And if we are not careful they could result in extremism. Further, LUKW, I have already posted on this site pointing out that serious economic crisis is what kills political parties.  If the Tories lose in 2010 with seriously deficient economic policies, Polly Toynbee is right: it could be the end for them. The same goes for Labour too. </p>
<p>In my view the bottom line is that if we want long-term stability in UK voting behaviour the Government must be induced to raise money to start major capital programmes as soon as possible. There are  short-term economic advantages in trying to kickstart the economy with consumer expenditure, but the overwhelming danger is that such short-termisn will make it impossible to raise subsequent loans that will enable essential investment. If, for instance, there are everyday cuts in electricity supply in the late 2010s people aren&#8217;t likely going to vote for the party or parties responsible for a very long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Blog &#171; Alternate Seat of TYR</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-524482</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog &#171; Alternate Seat of TYR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-524482</guid>
		<description>[...] of Truth on Baby P, Felix Salmon spanks rightwing mythology about car workers&#8217; wages, Anthony &#8220;Nate Silver before there was Nate Silver&#8221; Wells works through the general election scenarios. Parasites control red tides. Unicellular organism [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Truth on Baby P, Felix Salmon spanks rightwing mythology about car workers&#8217; wages, Anthony &#8220;Nate Silver before there was Nate Silver&#8221; Wells works through the general election scenarios. Parasites control red tides. Unicellular organism [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lukw</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-524371</link>
		<dc:creator>Lukw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-524371</guid>
		<description>Polly Toynbee thinks this is the end for for the Tories! She says in her latest article that the Tories have &#039;blown it&#039;, &#039;gone back to 1981&#039; and, totop it off, &#039;joined the dark side&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polly Toynbee thinks this is the end for for the Tories! She says in her latest article that the Tories have &#8216;blown it&#8217;, &#8216;gone back to 1981&#8242; and, totop it off, &#8216;joined the dark side&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon H</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1689/comment-page-2#comment-524366</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1689#comment-524366</guid>
		<description>Evening - this running on PA tonight:

&quot;The Tories are clinging on to their double-digit lead over Labour, according to a poll published tonight.

The ICM survey for the Sunday Mirror found the Conservatives still 11 points ahead of Labour - suggesting talk of a 2009 general election may be premature....&quot;

&quot;It put the Conservatives on 42% (down one since last month), Labour on 31% (up one) and the Liberal Democrats on 19% (up one).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evening &#8211; this running on PA tonight:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Tories are clinging on to their double-digit lead over Labour, according to a poll published tonight.</p>
<p>The ICM survey for the Sunday Mirror found the Conservatives still 11 points ahead of Labour &#8211; suggesting talk of a 2009 general election may be premature&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;It put the Conservatives on 42% (down one since last month), Labour on 31% (up one) and the Liberal Democrats on 19% (up one).&#8221;</p>
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