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	<title>Comments on: YouGov &#8211; Labour boosted by economic crisis</title>
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	<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504</link>
	<description>Independent Survey and Polling News</description>
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		<title>By: Joe James B</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-514856</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe James B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-514856</guid>
		<description>continuing some of the points about Lamont in the recession of 1990-92....

Lamont says he realised he would be moved the day before, in May 1993.
He went so some event - I think Portillo&#039;s birthday at a Spanish place where lots of politicians were attending, and it struck him that Major, Richard Ryder (chief whip), Norman Fowler (chairman) hadn&#039;t turned up, and was suspicious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>continuing some of the points about Lamont in the recession of 1990-92&#8230;.</p>
<p>Lamont says he realised he would be moved the day before, in May 1993.<br />
He went so some event &#8211; I think Portillo&#8217;s birthday at a Spanish place where lots of politicians were attending, and it struck him that Major, Richard Ryder (chief whip), Norman Fowler (chairman) hadn&#8217;t turned up, and was suspicious.</p>
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		<title>By: K Robinson</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-514842</link>
		<dc:creator>K Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-514842</guid>
		<description>Labour is to raise funds through debt.  This money must come from China, India and the Arab counries with oil.  These countries, through our outsourcing, investing and purchasing products from them, have more of our currency than we have. Thus, they will be able to afford to purchase our debt which we can then reinvest to boost our economies.  Eventually, when these debts are called in, we will default, and they will end up owning us.  The next recession, due when t the debts are called, will make this one look very mild.  Of course the government could raise taxes to pay the debts, but that wouldnt matter to Labour, they wont be in government and it is a poison pill for whoever is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Labour is to raise funds through debt.  This money must come from China, India and the Arab counries with oil.  These countries, through our outsourcing, investing and purchasing products from them, have more of our currency than we have. Thus, they will be able to afford to purchase our debt which we can then reinvest to boost our economies.  Eventually, when these debts are called in, we will default, and they will end up owning us.  The next recession, due when t the debts are called, will make this one look very mild.  Of course the government could raise taxes to pay the debts, but that wouldnt matter to Labour, they wont be in government and it is a poison pill for whoever is.</p>
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		<title>By: john t t</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-509561</link>
		<dc:creator>john t t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-509561</guid>
		<description>JJB

Very clear analysis, thanks (though giving the BofE a remit on house price inflation controls would face enormous geographical problems)

I think all sites like this (non-partisan, tolerant, humorous etc) can be enlivened by a Lamont anecdote. My point about him was simply that he was regarded as a frightened rabbit in the financial crisis of the ERM fiasco.

There is no great &quot;free-market&quot; solution being offered to counter the almost socialistic proposals of Brown. Lamont said &quot;we might have better followed the US&quot; - the operative word being &quot;might&quot; , reminiscent of, well, &quot;erm...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJB</p>
<p>Very clear analysis, thanks (though giving the BofE a remit on house price inflation controls would face enormous geographical problems)</p>
<p>I think all sites like this (non-partisan, tolerant, humorous etc) can be enlivened by a Lamont anecdote. My point about him was simply that he was regarded as a frightened rabbit in the financial crisis of the ERM fiasco.</p>
<p>There is no great &#8220;free-market&#8221; solution being offered to counter the almost socialistic proposals of Brown. Lamont said &#8220;we might have better followed the US&#8221; &#8211; the operative word being &#8220;might&#8221; , reminiscent of, well, &#8220;erm&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Joe James B</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-509491</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe James B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-509491</guid>
		<description>Although I did read a very funny article by 
Giles Brandreth where he said he visited Lamont in the Treasury one day at the end of 1992 and stood by the window admiring the view saying ...
&quot;I just can&#039;t believe it. I&#039;m an MP. I&#039;m standing here in
the Treasury. And you&#039;re Chancellor of the Exchequer.&quot;

Lamont looked daggers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I did read a very funny article by<br />
Giles Brandreth where he said he visited Lamont in the Treasury one day at the end of 1992 and stood by the window admiring the view saying &#8230;<br />
&#8220;I just can&#8217;t believe it. I&#8217;m an MP. I&#8217;m standing here in<br />
the Treasury. And you&#8217;re Chancellor of the Exchequer.&#8221;</p>
<p>Lamont looked daggers.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe James B</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-509483</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe James B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-509483</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not quite sure what John&#039;s criticism of Norman Lamont is, although I don&#039;t agree with him on everything.
He didn&#039;t create the bubble in 1987-89 as he wasn&#039;t senior enough.
The government was still repaying debt and had a small PSBR under late Thatcher/Major/Lamont in 1990-91 - about the equivalent point to where we are now in 2008 - with the finances in a much worse mess already.

Major did order the Treasury boost spending quite a bit in 1991, partly for the NHS.

The ERM was a flawed mechanism being used for political union but it did force us to drive inflation down properly for once - in Britain - and we were kicked out at the right time.
We should have got out before the Black Wednesday itself, which was hugely humiliating, although Lamont says he wanted to get out quickly in the morning.

Afterwards, Lamont and Major put in place a sensible policy of inflation targeting which has served us well until now, effectively locked in by Labour with the Bank, but housing inflation  should have been part of the remit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not quite sure what John&#8217;s criticism of Norman Lamont is, although I don&#8217;t agree with him on everything.<br />
He didn&#8217;t create the bubble in 1987-89 as he wasn&#8217;t senior enough.<br />
The government was still repaying debt and had a small PSBR under late Thatcher/Major/Lamont in 1990-91 &#8211; about the equivalent point to where we are now in 2008 &#8211; with the finances in a much worse mess already.</p>
<p>Major did order the Treasury boost spending quite a bit in 1991, partly for the NHS.</p>
<p>The ERM was a flawed mechanism being used for political union but it did force us to drive inflation down properly for once &#8211; in Britain &#8211; and we were kicked out at the right time.<br />
We should have got out before the Black Wednesday itself, which was hugely humiliating, although Lamont says he wanted to get out quickly in the morning.</p>
<p>Afterwards, Lamont and Major put in place a sensible policy of inflation targeting which has served us well until now, effectively locked in by Labour with the Bank, but housing inflation  should have been part of the remit.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe James B</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-509477</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe James B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-509477</guid>
		<description>Letting credit go out of control is actually outside the universe of the free market, because it&#039;s money that doesn&#039;t exist of course.
Of course, an unchecked free market can have this effect, as it goes on effectively printing money itself.
In the early 80s, of course, the then government tried to control the stock of money, as we&#039;ve discussed.
But again, one shouldn&#039;t do it too rigidly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Letting credit go out of control is actually outside the universe of the free market, because it&#8217;s money that doesn&#8217;t exist of course.<br />
Of course, an unchecked free market can have this effect, as it goes on effectively printing money itself.<br />
In the early 80s, of course, the then government tried to control the stock of money, as we&#8217;ve discussed.<br />
But again, one shouldn&#8217;t do it too rigidly.</p>
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		<title>By: john t t</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-509386</link>
		<dc:creator>john t t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-509386</guid>
		<description>&quot;Meyer said that you take for granted human greed &amp; excess-and look to governments &quot;

He was quite right - the idea that you should have trust in individuals to behave altrruistically is dead.

Thankfully, Cameron&#039;s former colleague Lamont is nowhere near the levers of power now, though he&#039;s still wheeled out over the parapet to give a &quot;view&quot;.

How this recession is handled will be I hope very different from the early nineties approach, which seemed to be that nothing should be done to help businesses through, nothing should be done that might disturb the precious free market and its  brutal effects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Meyer said that you take for granted human greed &amp; excess-and look to governments &#8221;</p>
<p>He was quite right &#8211; the idea that you should have trust in individuals to behave altrruistically is dead.</p>
<p>Thankfully, Cameron&#8217;s former colleague Lamont is nowhere near the levers of power now, though he&#8217;s still wheeled out over the parapet to give a &#8220;view&#8221;.</p>
<p>How this recession is handled will be I hope very different from the early nineties approach, which seemed to be that nothing should be done to help businesses through, nothing should be done that might disturb the precious free market and its  brutal effects.</p>
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		<title>By: thomas</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-509106</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-509106</guid>
		<description>Frederic Stansfield - you should try the october populus poll thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frederic Stansfield &#8211; you should try the october populus poll thread.</p>
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		<title>By: colin</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-509083</link>
		<dc:creator>colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-509083</guid>
		<description>Just watched Panorama on the Credit Crisis  etc.

Some interesting snippets:-

Public Sector workers recognising that their jobs will be vulnerable :-In the YouGov Poll of 10/10 the biggest &quot;sectional&quot; slippages in Con vote &amp; Con/Lab gap from their 8/5 Poll( a peak for Cons &amp; low for Lab) were &quot;North&quot; &amp; &quot;18-34s&quot;.So will areas with high public sector employment of young families now see a vote for Labour as the best way of keeping their jobs?  

People saying they will now save more to provide a cushion-even keeping money under the bed:-That will excacerbate the downturn.

The FSA staff portrayed as ill qualified to carry out the supervisory jobs they were landed with.

Some lovely GB quotes:-

circa 2004/2005:-

Congratulating The City on it&#039;s &quot;Dynamism in developing modern instruments of finance&quot;

In the House saying &quot;In any other decade a housing bubble would have led to bust&quot;

then 2008-&quot;The Age of Irresponsibility is over&quot;

Priceless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just watched Panorama on the Credit Crisis  etc.</p>
<p>Some interesting snippets:-</p>
<p>Public Sector workers recognising that their jobs will be vulnerable :-In the YouGov Poll of 10/10 the biggest &#8220;sectional&#8221; slippages in Con vote &amp; Con/Lab gap from their 8/5 Poll( a peak for Cons &amp; low for Lab) were &#8220;North&#8221; &amp; &#8220;18-34s&#8221;.So will areas with high public sector employment of young families now see a vote for Labour as the best way of keeping their jobs?  </p>
<p>People saying they will now save more to provide a cushion-even keeping money under the bed:-That will excacerbate the downturn.</p>
<p>The FSA staff portrayed as ill qualified to carry out the supervisory jobs they were landed with.</p>
<p>Some lovely GB quotes:-</p>
<p>circa 2004/2005:-</p>
<p>Congratulating The City on it&#8217;s &#8220;Dynamism in developing modern instruments of finance&#8221;</p>
<p>In the House saying &#8220;In any other decade a housing bubble would have led to bust&#8221;</p>
<p>then 2008-&#8221;The Age of Irresponsibility is over&#8221;</p>
<p>Priceless.</p>
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		<title>By: Frederic Stansfield</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1504/comment-page-3#comment-509017</link>
		<dc:creator>Frederic Stansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/?p=1504#comment-509017</guid>
		<description>Following Peter Cairns, Nick Keene and Colin, if Scottish politicians and voters try to build a Scottish dimension out of the banking crisis they may not like the psephological consequences at all.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but aren&#039;t the two largest &quot;British&quot; banks that had to be rescued HBOS, including the former Bank of Scotland, and RBS, i.e. Royal Bank of Scotland? Both historically had their headquarters in central Edinburgh, George Square if I remember rightly, even if they have subsequently moved to Halifax or the Southern outskirts of Edinburgh. And I don&#039;t know the exact constituency boundaries in the Scottish capital, but isn&#039;t Alastair Darling, Chancellor of the Exchequer, MP for Edinburgh Central?

And, as has been pointed out, doesn&#039;t Alex Salmond, who seems to have been keeping notably quiet over the crisis at any rate in relation to the London media, have RBS connections as an ex-employee?

Few people in England at the moment seem to see the national aspects of the international financial crisis as anything other than British, but the Barnett formula in respect to Scottish local government has started to cause English resentment. If the solution to the banking crisis gets to be seen as a Scottish Prime Minister and a Scottish Chancellor of the Exchequer bailing out Scotitsh based banks with tens of billions of pounds. mostly raised on the basis of English wealth and tax revenue, this will leave the Barnett formula at the starting post as a source of political discontent. It may well not be the Scots but the English breaking up the Union. I know we shouldn&#039;t express opinions here, as opposed to pointing out psephological matters, but even as somebody who has in the past voted nationalist I hope for all our sakes we don&#039;t have such a political meltdown on top of the economic one.

If Scotland had been independent now, the Edinburgh banks would have left their country nearly as bankrupt as Iceland.

If Scotland becomes independent in the future, English voters may well demand that Scotland alone takes on the Government guarantees to Edinburgh based banks, particularly as they were made by ministers from Scottish constituencies.

It is far too early to tell what psephological effects the current banking and finance crises will have. People have more urgent things on their minds than how they will vote in 2010. But, as has been pointed out in various Westminster based media, it may well be bad news for the SNP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following Peter Cairns, Nick Keene and Colin, if Scottish politicians and voters try to build a Scottish dimension out of the banking crisis they may not like the psephological consequences at all.</p>
<p>Forgive me if I am wrong, but aren&#8217;t the two largest &#8220;British&#8221; banks that had to be rescued HBOS, including the former Bank of Scotland, and RBS, i.e. Royal Bank of Scotland? Both historically had their headquarters in central Edinburgh, George Square if I remember rightly, even if they have subsequently moved to Halifax or the Southern outskirts of Edinburgh. And I don&#8217;t know the exact constituency boundaries in the Scottish capital, but isn&#8217;t Alastair Darling, Chancellor of the Exchequer, MP for Edinburgh Central?</p>
<p>And, as has been pointed out, doesn&#8217;t Alex Salmond, who seems to have been keeping notably quiet over the crisis at any rate in relation to the London media, have RBS connections as an ex-employee?</p>
<p>Few people in England at the moment seem to see the national aspects of the international financial crisis as anything other than British, but the Barnett formula in respect to Scottish local government has started to cause English resentment. If the solution to the banking crisis gets to be seen as a Scottish Prime Minister and a Scottish Chancellor of the Exchequer bailing out Scotitsh based banks with tens of billions of pounds. mostly raised on the basis of English wealth and tax revenue, this will leave the Barnett formula at the starting post as a source of political discontent. It may well not be the Scots but the English breaking up the Union. I know we shouldn&#8217;t express opinions here, as opposed to pointing out psephological matters, but even as somebody who has in the past voted nationalist I hope for all our sakes we don&#8217;t have such a political meltdown on top of the economic one.</p>
<p>If Scotland had been independent now, the Edinburgh banks would have left their country nearly as bankrupt as Iceland.</p>
<p>If Scotland becomes independent in the future, English voters may well demand that Scotland alone takes on the Government guarantees to Edinburgh based banks, particularly as they were made by ministers from Scottish constituencies.</p>
<p>It is far too early to tell what psephological effects the current banking and finance crises will have. People have more urgent things on their minds than how they will vote in 2010. But, as has been pointed out in various Westminster based media, it may well be bad news for the SNP.</p>
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