For the last couple of months the polls have tended to be pretty much static. The latest monthly Populus out is quite literally static – no change at all from Populus’s last poll with topline figures of CON 43%(nc), LAB 27%(nc), LDEM 18%(nc). Not much we can add to that.

The poll was conducted between the 29th and 31st August.


56 Responses to “No change from Populus”

1 2
  1. no change at end of augest thats good news if your dave camaron and bad news if your gordon brown, i still think its worth wile holding on untill the conferance season starts to see what happens

  2. WMA 45:26:17 though this apparent stasis in the face of the dire economic and political news makes no sense. I suspect that the holidays have made sampling unreliable and that we’ll see a significant movement over the next month.

  3. Perhaps.
    I do think Labour has probably hit rock bottom though, and am slightly nervous that as the main part of the downturn takes hold (rather than mainly speculation) some people will actually cling to the government as the available doctor – on hand – on offer.
    3% – maximum.

    But it could get even worse for the Government on the other hand.

  4. I’ll be interested to see whether Osborne sticks his neck out on the policies announced to-day, or simply sticks to the “just thrashing about, short-term” line.

    A traditional Conservative reaction would be to abhor lending tax-payer help in the ways proposed per se.

    “What about the hard-workers who weren’t irresponsible?” and

    ” Why encourage house purchases by investing in a plunging market?”

    It would be a courageous line, given the obvious lack of poll reaction.

    Will Osborne wait to find out how the polls react and then decide how to deal with it? His initial reaction seems to suggest that. (“We’ll wait for the detail and support what works”)

  5. It does seem odd that the continued flood of bad stories for Labour has not seen any continued poll gains for the Conservatives.

    Instead of taking about a floor for Labour ratings, perhaps we should be speaking about a ceiling for Conservative ratings.

    It is hard for commentators to escape the fact that with one-way traffic the LDs are not being squeezed out of existence. This means that the majority of the poll movement up till this period of stasis has been a straight switch from Lab to Con and suggests the LDs haven’t noticably lurched in any direction.

    One wonders therefore which side would be a net gainer were Cameron & Co to show some weakness and instability in his ranks (which may start if they have hit their ceiling and peaked already).

    Recent announcements appear to imply the tories are desperate to capitalize on their current position and getting impatient for an election – will they be repeating the calls made during last years conference season, or will this be the moment disunity behind Cameron breaks into public focus?

    Brown must be beginning to feel he has managed the turn and survived – what more can be thrown at him?

  6. thomas-

    what more can be thorwn at brown- he sold the gold, taxes at their highest level for years, inflation up at the same levels as ten years ago if not higher 9.6% if both are combined, not putting money aside for bad year, spending to much of our money, running a bad govenment and finaly letting the country go tits up.

    if thats not a good reason to get rid of him then i don’t know what is.

  7. The Tories haven’t even started on the offensive yet, in fact they’ve been rather quiet of late!

    I suspect when we start hearing some of their proposals aired those undecideds who are just waiting to give their vote to ‘anyone but Labour’ will come out of the woodwork and send them above the magic 50%

    They need to get their fingers out though because I suspect all this airtime Labour are getting (especially on the Beeb) will eventually pay dividends if not attacked.

  8. Stuart, that’s my point – he would be thrown out at this point in time, clearly, but between now and whenever he calls the next election the only thing which is certain is that things will change.

    Can Labour make things worse? Can the Conservatives keep up their momentum? Are there any other alternatives?

    So whether the established pattern of fortunes cracks alone or another party forces the status quo to crack we can be sure only that cracks will emerge.

    The current stability suggests that no cracks are yet apparent in the foundations of Labour support, nor in the ceiling of Conservative support – so where (and when) will the cracks come?

  9. Another factor to consider is that we don’t know the Tories’ detailed plans for government yet. If they manage to come up with a manifesto that strikes a nerve with the public then that may push their ratings higher.

  10. ‘It does seem odd that the continued flood of bad stories for Labour has not seen any continued poll gains for the Conservatives.’

    Surely given the amount of angst shed on this site about ‘core votes’ here we may have it; finally some people vote on emotion not on logic. Hence the polls. The recent polls not merely reflect (perhaps) summer oddities but perhaps a state of ‘so far no further’. That’s why political parties (basically) don’t die but some grow to reflect new idea- Labour in the 1920s, Nationalist parties in the last 20 years.

  11. IMHO helicopters in Afghanistan and tax relief for estates up to £2million aren’t going to do much for someone about to lose their job / suffering the effects of knife crime.
    Fair play to Darling -at least he said he’d got it wrong.He appears to have done Brown a service by presenting the human face that Brown and Balls lack.
    Cameron has got to cut public spending which will be deeply unpopular with many local councillors in his party.

  12. The next interesting point will be the conferences. The next by-election is the SNP’s for the taking and will be more newsworthy if they don’t take it.

    The LibDems are in a quandary, in my opinion – their growth in 1997 was down to the fall in Tory support, and is equally vulnerable to the (current) Tory revival.

    Labour may lose some of its core in Wales and Scotland, but the core ability of a party in this struggle is adaptation, and if Labour can retain a base in the public sector and recent immigrants to the country, its future is surely secure.

    The Tories may not have hit a ceiling something truly historic will be needed to break 50%, especially since the SNP has absorbed the anti-Labour vote north of the Tweed. Perhaps the conference will do it, but I don’t think it will, much as I would like it to.

    As for Gordon Brown, he’s had a whole summer to write this speech, so I don’t think it will galvanise the party sufficiently to find a challenger to remove him, even though this is their last realistic chance to install a new leader before 2010.

  13. I think these Summer polls have been too consistent to be dismissed as unreliable.

    Over a period of about 9 months millions of people who were inclined to vote Labour are no longer inclined to do so. I suspect that the remaining 26% of the voting public who have not changed their minds already will not do so readily.

    But based on the economic forecast and how well Brown’s Labour has performed to date I’m inclined to think that over the coming next 9 months we will see support for Labour fall by another 2 or 3 per cent.

  14. Yep – Labour’s core vote appears to be low to mid 20s and I can’t see it going any lower than this regardless of what happens.

    The conference season will be interesting but will it change the polls much? – I doubt it.

    As someone with an interest in financial matters and economics I am personally awaiting the Chancellor’s autumn pre budget statement with considerable interest – just to find how much financial trouble the Government is in. I expect the figures to be really dire – much worse than forecast – because of falling tax receipts, Northern Rock, more unemployed, Government spending etc etc.

    It is inevitable that the Government ‘s “Golden Rule” has now been broken so it will be interesting how they present that to the elctorate and try to look credible

  15. Wolf – the Conservatives’ proposed tax relief is not “for estates up to £2m”, it’s for all estates above £600k, with most benefit accruing to the wealthiest. To quote the Telegraph “Tory Spokesman” source :

    “we would raise the nil rate band to £1m per person.
    This has always been our position; it’s just that we haven’t shouted about it.”

    I wonder why not?

  16. Surely the lesson of the summer opinion polls is that nothing has changed which is hardly good news for Labour given that traditionally governments tend to recover a little ground during this time only to lose it again after the conference season is over.
    So far as the ratings for each of the main three parties are concerned I believe that all of them will out perform the polls come election day. Why? Because as I have said before I just don’t believe that the vote for ‘others’ will be anything like 12 or 13% however well the SNP do in Scotland.
    As for the gaggle of ill thought out measures to help the housing market announced yesterday there is no need for the Tories-to ‘pull their finger out’ and attack them since this mornings’ papers have done the job for them.
    With only 20 months to go before the most likely date of the next election it is hard to see much changing in the polls by that date unless the economy defies all predictions as to growth. Labour supporters- some of whom only 6 months ago were deriding the mere idea of a recession- continue to pin their hopes on some sort of recovery but fail to take into account the time lag between the resumption of growth whenever that might be and the return of any ‘feel good’ factor. I think we have now reached the point at which we can firmly state that there is simply not enough time left before an election for that to happen.
    As Private Fraser would say’You’re all doomed!!”

  17. As John Major found in his last few years in office, even economic recovery can be a “voteless recovery”.

  18. “there is no need for the Tories-to ‘pull their finger out’ and attack them since this mornings’ papers have done the job for them”

    True, but such complacency requires continuing media help like that. The criticisms I’ve read amount to the “moral hazard” and “not enough” (and there’s probably a “desperate bribe” one somewhere as well.

    If the editors wake up some day soon and decide it’ll make a better headline to consider the Consewrvative approach to the problem (what is it, “tighten the purse strings”?) or the Lib Dem approach (tax cuts for low and middle income households, stopping (how?) unnecessary repossessions, action (what?) to cut energy bills and moves (which?) to stop reckless banks jeopardising economic security), that will all help Labour simply because it will distract from the “doesn’t he look horrible” level of debate.

  19. I’m not usually a fan of the SNP but I totally agree with what they’ve done regarding abolishing Council Tax in Scotland. it seems to me a much fairer system to raise money via local income tax. I see this as a vote winner for them in Scotland and I would see it as a vote winner for DC in England and Wales if he proposed the same thing.

  20. As I understand the SNP plan-it is not for a “local” Income Tax.

    It is for a centrally decided & levied Income Tax of 3p/£

    Scottish Income Tax would seem to be a better description of it.

  21. Fascinating move by the SNP on the council tax, it could be done down here too. No doubt David Cameron will be watching if it actually does work.

  22. Local tax suggests local responsibility, authority, accountability, rather than central. Just how local is up to Holyrood.

    I’d prefer income tax to property tax, simply because it’s based on ability to pay, but I’m uncertain about local v central.

    Cameron + Clegg seem to prefer “local” tax to “central” tax, and I don’t know what Labour’s position is (I suspect lots more of both!):)

  23. Keith – That would be the ultimate irony, for the Conservatives to see how LIT panned out in Scotland before introducing it themselves!

  24. Surely the abolition of a locally calculated and collected tax which is used to pay for local services;-to be replaced by a nationally calculated and collected tax for those same services, is a reduction in democracy & accountability?

    My local council-like all local councils has very little power to make real local spending choices which do not fall within rules prescribed by Westminster.By & large they are the local spending agency for implementing central government policy.

    But whilst my locally elected council has to fund some part of these expenditures from it’s voters, we can at least excercise a local vote which might influence the level of this tax.

    If my local council were to have it’s local revenue raising powers withdrawn; to be replaced by centrally decided & collected income tax -what is the point of having elected councillors?

    I can no longer influence their fund raising plans with my vote-so why do I need them?

  25. I think there’s more to running a local town than just raising money and choosing what to spend it on.

    A local governing body, whatever the source of funding, should develop an ethos based on energetic pursuit of locally beneficial activities.

    I’d vote for a council member who could convince me that they’d make a real contribution to the character of the place I lived, no matter whether they can deliver local essential services more cheaply than the next candidate.

    I suspect, however that most local voters vote for whichever national party they dislike least – and that is why I’m not sure about the “local democracy” values.

  26. As I have said elsewhere on this site how is this idea of a local income tax in Scotland going to work without the cooperation of either the Inland Revenue or the Treasury and given the paralysis that passes for local government in the central belt of Scotland who I presume would have to administer the changeover?
    Not only that but as the SNP lack a majority in Holyrood they have to seek the backing of another major party which means the Liberal Democrats being the only party broadly in favour of such a change. However since that party has so I am told come to realise that in their well heeled seats such as Edinburgh South they would risk alienating chunks of their support if they opted for the SNP proposals they have become rather shy at the idea of getting into bed with the SNP on this one.
    I think this proposal will not achieve lift off.

  27. My apologies – when I first read this story I read it as scrapping the Council Tax in favour of a local tax which I assumed to be a local sales tax. It seems Colin is right and what’s on the table is a local income tax.

    A local sales tax would be better but I still prefer a local income tax than the council tax . Although whether it will actually happen is another matter.

    If DC wants to do it in England and wales – which I believe is a vote winner – he should look at ways of introducing a local sales tax to scrap the Council tax.

  28. I wonder how long the SNP can continue gaining support while raising taxes and arguing this is beneficial to the Scottish economy?

  29. “…these Summer polls have been too consistent to be dismissed as unreliable.”

    Yet there is a PHI5000 poll suggesting support for parliament has grown during recess…

  30. ”I wonder how long the SNP can continue gaining support while raising taxes and arguing this is beneficial to the Scottish economy?” Thomas

    Cheap argument–prove your prejudice. To remove one tax and substitute another is not axiomatically an increase in tax. Nor is increasing tax axiomatically against an ‘economy’.

    Can we leave a statement of prejudices away from this forum whioch is about polls and implications?

  31. LIT, in Scotland will actually raise less than the current CT as to keep it at 3% Councils have to find £180m of savings over the next 2 to 3 years.

    Cathy Jamesons line in Holyrood was about council cuts which I think will be there line throught to the Glenrothes by election in October.

    The problem with that line is that if councils are to get more cash then you either cut the the only other major spending area “Health”, or you raise tax in a recession, neither of which are vote winners.

    Peter.

  32. who ever runs the country after the next election most likely not labour should withdraw from on the ground politicts and leave the hard work to district councils and parish councils who know what is going on in their area, which means more power being devolved to loca councillors and parish councillors over iseues like planning, environment, the amount of money which is needed to improve, lighting, road repair and funding for local projects to improve the local environment, not a top down system as we are now bein run by.

  33. Jack, I refer you to the CBI response from David Lonsdale who stated they are “wholly opposed” to this SNP measure.

    I’m not sure it’s always a good thing to upset cornerstones of the community with flagrant disregard to the integrity of the greater structure.

  34. Going back to the Tory response to the economic situation – it may be that their preferred response would sound rather unpalatable. I thing the best response to the house price & mortgage crunch is – do nothing. You can’t buck the markets, as someone once said, and the housing market is too big even for government to influence. If house prices fall 30% in one year rather than two, no one is actually worse off and it may actually help people to weather the storm: it means in a year’s time that house prices will settle down and we can all start to buy and sell houses again. People in mortgage difficulties will only have to last out a year before they can hope to re-mortgage or sell, and property developers will only have one bad year rather than two and might be able to weather the storm.

    So the Tory view might be – we’d do nothing. If they were a government in power with say 4-5 years to go, assuming they were right they would just put up with any poor poll ratings as when the economy got back on track people would start supporting them again. However they may feel that as an opposition with less than 2 years to an election, that would be too unpalatable to say and the electorate would prefer a Government that claims to be doing something – anything – hower ineffective, counter-productive or downright stupid that something is.

  35. Thomas, the CBI’s response seems to be based on the spurious argument that it will raise taxes. Which on the face of it, it won’t – it is simply replacing one tax with another, arguably fairer, one (although I would want to see any local income tax vary according to how much money is spent by your local council).

    There is one problem I can foresee which is that currently people living on their own get a 25% discount – I don’t see how this would be factored into an LIT and as they probably tend to live in smaller properties in lower CT bands, this could be a bit of a double whammy – the SNP could be hitting all those young upwardly mobile professionals they need to vote for them.

    There is another advantage of an LIT, as it would enable a fairly simple redefinition of the boundary between national and local income tax in the future. The Govt could say that actually 5% (say, I have no idea of the correct figure) of your national income tax uis spent on local govt. So they could then redefine tax to be 15% national 8% local and if it was variable this would mean that the citizen now directly paid for LG services and there would be much improved trasnparency over how much opf your money your local council p***es up against the wall.

  36. Apologies for the spelling on that last one – I’ve got that Google spelling thing on my toolbar so no excuses, I need to learn to actually use it.

  37. Phil C,

    For the next two years council tax will be frozen at current levels as it was tis year. for Band d houses that’s between £1,050 and £1,250 depending on where you live.

    As a Band A is 1 third of a Band H and two thirds of a Band D (which makes a Dand H double a band D) The lowest you will get for a single person in a Band A is two thirds of £1,050 less 25% or £525. That represents £% of £17,500 which when you add the current tax threshold comes in at an income of £23,000.

    Peter.

  38. So anyone with an income over £23K living in a Band A property will be worse off? I’m not au fait with Scottish salary levels or property prices but that doesn’t sound particularly well off to me. It also tells me than any couple with a combined income of £46K (ie two people on £23K) in a Band D home could be worse off. How popular will that be when people see the figures?

    On the other hand, two years of frozen council tax will be a bit of a sweetener, will this be achieved by cutting council expenditure by an equivalent amount or will the UK taxpayer somehow end up footing the bill?

  39. ‘Jack, I refer you to the CBI response from David Lonsdale who stated they are “wholly opposed” to this SNP measure.

    I’m not sure it’s always a good thing to upset cornerstones of the community with flagrant disregard to the integrity of the greater structure.’

    Fine, but in the argument offered it seems merely a statement of opinion rather than an argument. The argument is not related to poll issues as such in my opinion not germane to the core issues of this site.

  40. Phil,

    Average Scottish earnings are about £25,000 and the average house is a Band C.

    However of the 4 million adult Scots only 2.5m are in employment and only 1.5m of them are in full time employment which is what the £25,000 is based on.

    As the average is based on more men and women and men earn more and that the average is skewed by a small number of high earners a better figure to use is the median the point at which half earn above and half earn below.

    Currently median incomes in Scotland for a household with two adults and no children is £377 a week before housing costs, or about £20,000 a year. that difference is because the median income figure takes in to account all 4m adults not just the average for the 1.5m working full time.

    As for an income of £40,000 for a couple of Scotlands 2.5m or so households less than 10% earn over that figure.

    With the most common home a Band C paying about £900 then the median couple on £20,000 assuming both working on £10,000 would pay £150 each or £600 less. If however one earns the full £20,000 and the other nothing then they would pay £450 still £450 less.

    There will be losers as there always are but on the basis of Scottish adult incomes close to 70% are better off. Thats reason the LIT is popular with electorate because it’s based on the incomes of all 4m of them not just the ones in work.

    Those opposing it are in some respects failing to see that in opposing for opposings sake they are attacking a proposal that most of the electorate want and like.

    That is close to political incompetence.

    Peter.

  41. Thanks Peter, good explanation.

    It’s a different country isn’t it? Especially compared with London & the South East.

  42. Judging by Aberdeen there are some very easy capital savings to be made in Scottish local government.

  43. There is no evidence that the LIT tax is popular with the electorate primarily because very few people understand it or how it is going to work.With barely a third of the electorate who bothered to vote last time around behind them the SNP have no mandate for such a tax anyway.
    Nobody likes paying taxes be it the old rates,the poll tax or the present council tax which however is not as detested as Alex Salmond would have us believe. The local authorities proved unequal to the task of switching from one form of tax to another with millions of pounds being uncollected and written off.
    The losers here would include the aspirational classes,small to medium size businesses and the local authorities themselves. Cuts in services would be inevitable.
    Anyone want a full analysis should pick up a copy of yesterday’s “Scotsman” -that said it all.

  44. Anthony, do you have any thoughts on Chris Huhne’s marginals’ analysis here?

    http://www.libdemvoice.org/chris-huhne-writes-dont-underestimate-the-lib-dems-3276.html

  45. I do, but they are all informed by some exciting stuff that isn’t published yet, so you’ll have to wait for it :)

  46. Intriguing. When is this ‘stuff’ being published? Who is it being published by?

  47. If I told you I’d have to kill you, sorry.

  48. Nick,

    As this is a polling Blog I’d have thought that you would have go back and seen the answers from scottish polls when the question is asked. If you had you’d have seen that the public back it by more than two to one.

    As to the size of the SNP vote, on that basis virtually no UK government in the last half century has had a mandate to do anything.

    As to the Scotsman i assume you mean it’s continuing campaign against it with; “25 Reasons not to have LIT”.

    1

    Local income tax (LIT) will leave a £750 million financial black hole in Scotland. Others have suggested it could be as high as £1.3 billion.

    YVETTE COOPER, CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY

    The £750m is made up of the £400m they are refusing to transfer, the £180m of council savings ( to be retained by Councils) and £250m that John Swinney has agreed to give councils.

    2

    LIT will make Scotland the highest-taxed part of the UK and this might encourage businesses to leave.

    INSTITUTE OF DIRECTORS

    The LIT will replace and existing tax and actually raise less than the current council tax which unlike in England and Wales has already been frozen.

    3

    There will be serious service cuts at council level unless local income tax is set at 4.5p or higher.

    THE LABOUR PARTY

    If Labour want to put up tax in a resession then they can put it in there manefesto and put on blind folds and stand against a wall.

    4

    LIT may be illegal under the provisions of the Scotland Act because it is unclear whether a local tax can be replaced by a national tax.

    PROFESSOR RICHARD KERLEY, OF QUEEN MARGARET UNIVERSITY

    through the Concordatt councils can agree to all set the same rate in line with the negotiations for block grant.

    5

    Replacing an unfair tax with an unworkable tax will cause more misery than we can know.

    PATRICK HARVIE, GREEN PARTY

    Lit is as easy to work as income tax and it’s used globally, unlike the Greens favoured LVT which is used in only a handfull of countries and which has the same inherent problems as the Council tax.

    6

    There will be a ‘damaging’ impact on service personnel, who would have to pay the new tax in full, but currently have their council tax reduced. This could lower morale and cause yet more recruitment problems.

    BOB AINSWORTH, ARMED FORCES MINISTER

    There is nothing to stop the MOD paying for soldiers LIT in the same way they exempt them from council tax. Given service wages and accommadation, the overall cost to the treasury would probably be less.

    7

    There will be serious anomalies over people living in England but working in Scotland. There are also concerns that people may register as living in England to avoid paying.

    THE INSTITUTE OF CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS

    Tghe percentage of people that fall in to this catagory are very small and we already have it with non domesiles.

    8

    Hard-pressed students, who are currently exempt from the council tax, would have to pay.

    THE NATIONAL UNION OF STUDENTS

    Only if they had income in excess of £100pw, and if someone earning over £100pw who is on a pension or working has to pay so should a student.

    9

    Scottish firms would be placed at a competitive disadvantage to companies in other parts of the UK because LIT additions to wage packets would be passed on to customers.

    SCOTTISH CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE

    The cost of calculating 3% tax as well as 205 and 405 plus NIC is minimal. Business doesn’t like additional costs but this would be inexpensive and be hugely out weight by Scotlands already lower wage levels.

    10

    LIT will take £70 million from vital city council services which will lead to severe cuts.

    GLASGOW CITY COUNCIL

    Glasgow is Labours last council in Scotland and as with other labour comments it fails to account for agreed efficiency savings and increased grant. still if glasgow wants to pull out of the concordatt and raise the Council tax it’s free to do so.

    11

    The PAYE system does not easily deal with taxpayers who receive income from different sources, including pensioners receiving pensions from different employers or those who have various part-time jobs – this will particularly affect those on low incomes who will be exposed to incorrect PAYE codes, and these practical issues should not be underestimated.

    THE LAW SOCIETY OF SCOTLAND

    That it’s a criticism of LIT it’s a criticism of the PAYE system.

    12

    Regardless of the rate of tax chosen, there will be uncertainty as to the yield that can be obtained, as revenues derived from income taxes can be more volatile.

    SCOTTISH COUNCIL FOR DEVELOPMENT AND INDUSTRY

    That’s a criticism of all income tax not just LIT, but as LIT will make up less than 20% of Council incomes it isn’t an unsurmountable problem.

    13

    LIT would be technically complex and challenging to implement because of the complexities of tax law, and trying to sort out what would happen to the £400 million council tax benefit.

    THE CHARTERED INSTITUTE OF PUBLIC FINANCE AND ACCOUNTANCY

    The tax laws complexity isn’t our fault and the addition of 3% isn’t any more difficult than the Chancellor changing the basic rate. as to the £400m, just add it to the block grant.

    14

    Investors and businesses who are thinking of coming to Scotland will be scared away because of the extra income tax.

    CBI SCOTLAND

    Scottish wages will not go up and 35 won’t be borne by business but employees.

    15

    LIT probably breaks European law by removing control of raising local finances from councils. It could break Article 9 of the European charter of local self-government, which guarantees the right of councils to raise a large part of their own finances.

    PROFESSOR CHRIS HIMSWORTH, OF EDINBURGH UNIVERSITY

    As before Councils can agree to all set it at the same rate if they wish, and again the advice is “could” not would.

    16

    Wealthy people who have unearned income from sources like share dividends can avoid LIT whilst poorer people would have to pay.

    THE SCOTTISH TRADES UNION CONGRESS

    Again to be expected by Labours financiers. the numbers of wealthy who can avoid in will be meassured in thousands, the number of the poorer who benefit measured in the hundreds of thousands. Of all the comments so far this one from the STUC is the most shameful.

    17

    The UK tax system does not give across-the-board allowances for disability and, in the absence of such allowances, the burden of LIT will be higher on disabled people than on the general body of taxpayers.

    LOW INCOMES TAX REFORM GROUP

    again that’s a criticism of the UK tax system and as the majority of the disabled are on low incomes even including benefit payments the overwhelming majority will be better off.

    18

    LIT will be more intrusive into people’s lives because it would require far greater knowledge of their personal circumstances than a property tax would.

    THE INSTITUTE OF REVENUES, RATING AND VALUATION

    it require the same information as the Inland revenue already has.

    19

    At present, a cohort of carers are currently “disregarded” (treated as not living in the property) when calculating council tax. Households with multiple taxpayers will end up paying more and this has the potential to include more carers who are not currently liable for council tax.

    CARERS SCOTLAND

    A “cohort” is an odd term that suggests they don’t know the number which is likely extremely small. However again as discounting a carer can at best get a 25% discount the majority of those needing care will still benefit.

    20

    The £281 million of savings that need to be made to create a 3p local income tax could be used instead to reduce the burden of the council tax.

    THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY

    Surprise surprise the party who’s supporters do best out of the council tax want to keep it and even reduce it.

    21

    LIT would bring unwelcome extra bureaucracy and cost to businesses because of all the extra paperwork created in sorting out employees’ income tax. Lib Dem proposals for different rates for different areas would make it even worse.

    THE FEDERATION OF SMALL BUSINESSES

    As covered before the additional cost would be minimal, althoug there would be issues for employers if they had to do 32 different rates.

    22

    Families will be worse off, or there will be cuts in public services, because the 3p rate will not be enough to fund current service levels.

    UNISON

    Another Union calling for more money for local government rather than more efficent local government.

    23

    Water and sewerage charges are collected by local authorities on behalf of Scottish Water – the consultation did not present any proposals on how such charges will be set and collected under LIT.

    SOCIETY OF LOCAL AUTHORITY CHIEF EXECUTIVES

    That’s because they aren’t part of the Council tax and are currently dealt with under seperate arrangements where Scottish water pays councils to collect it for them.

    24

    LIT would be bad for the environment because it will take away the flexibility needed to bring in specific charges for rubbish collection.

    THE POLICY INSTITUTE

    The scottish Parliament has power over local taxation and finance and can allow additional charging if it wishes.

    25

    The SNP’s centralising LIT proposal reduces the lack of control that councils have over local finances.

    SOUTH LANARKSHIRE COUNCIL

    If you know anything about South Lanrkshire Council, thats not a criticism it’s a blessing.

    So in summary what you have is little more than a shotgun approach of firing off every criticism and hoping some hit. well a few have but they are only pellets and they will need more than that to stop us let alone bring us down.

    Final remember the adage; follow the money… look at the list above of critics and just ask yourself this;

    “Of the people at the top of these organisations including the people writing the article, How many would be paying a lot more under LIT?”

    Peter.

  49. Cricky Peter don’t put this writing as it will result in the disappearance of yet another Amazonian rain forest…
    For all the apparant ease with which you so lightly -and wrongly- dismiss the reservations of so many diverse organisations about the imposition of LIT the fact remains that it will require a near miracle to get any such scheme up and running.
    Once Holyrood ministers respond to the consultation paper I shall return to this subject.

  50. Sounds like it’ll be a cinch to pass into law.

    Jack, polls are a reflection of the balance of opinion, therefore all opinions are germane to them, as Peter describes, there is a whole bunch of opposition to the SNP so it shouldn’t be much of a surprise that the SNP is in the minority nor will it be when they get drowned out in the debates.

    You have to admire the pluck of the SNP, but you have to question their sense.

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