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	<title>Comments on: Scottish Independence</title>
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	<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104</link>
	<description>Opinion polling and political analysis</description>
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		<title>By: Alasdair</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104/comment-page-1#comment-332162</link>
		<dc:creator>Alasdair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104#comment-332162</guid>
		<description>Fluffy, according to the CIA World Factbook

&#039;The UK has large coal, natural gas, and oil reserves; primary energy production accounts for 10% of GDP, one of the highest shares of any industrial nation.&#039; -  in the economic overview

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fluffy, according to the CIA World Factbook</p>
<p>&#8216;The UK has large coal, natural gas, and oil reserves; primary energy production accounts for 10% of GDP, one of the highest shares of any industrial nation.&#8217; &#8211;  in the economic overview</p>
<p><a href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: NorthBriton</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104/comment-page-1#comment-332152</link>
		<dc:creator>NorthBriton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104#comment-332152</guid>
		<description>Agree with Peter about the &quot;whirl for wind&quot;. It&#039;s quite extraordinary how these utterly useless wind turbine schemes have been pushed forward. The damage they do to the Scottish uplands and moorlands is immense - it&#039;s not so much the pylons themselves, but the infrastructure (roads, foundations etc) that are so appalling. Very much hope the Lewis proposals get thrown out - the only beneficiaries would be those getting rents; they&#039;ll do nothing to energise the local economy.

The other project that seems to be mesmerising Scottish politicians is Donald Trump&#039;s proposed golf complex on a sensitive site near the coast in Aberdeenshire. So far as I can tell it seems to be mainly a large housing development with the golf element (and promise of zillions of jobs etc) designed to persuade credulous politicians that they should overturn normal planning procedures to support it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with Peter about the &#8220;whirl for wind&#8221;. It&#8217;s quite extraordinary how these utterly useless wind turbine schemes have been pushed forward. The damage they do to the Scottish uplands and moorlands is immense &#8211; it&#8217;s not so much the pylons themselves, but the infrastructure (roads, foundations etc) that are so appalling. Very much hope the Lewis proposals get thrown out &#8211; the only beneficiaries would be those getting rents; they&#8217;ll do nothing to energise the local economy.</p>
<p>The other project that seems to be mesmerising Scottish politicians is Donald Trump&#8217;s proposed golf complex on a sensitive site near the coast in Aberdeenshire. So far as I can tell it seems to be mainly a large housing development with the golf element (and promise of zillions of jobs etc) designed to persuade credulous politicians that they should overturn normal planning procedures to support it.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104/comment-page-1#comment-332148</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104#comment-332148</guid>
		<description>Peter:-

&quot;By and large companies the size of governments use the same kinds rules and the same kinds of accountants, and they make the same kinds of errors. &quot;

Absolute nonsense. Companies use double-entry book-keeping and abide by International Accounting Standards( except the Enrons with crap Auditors of course)-government departments don&#039;t.

One might observe that the authors of Enron style abuse end up in goal-their counterparts in government don&#039;t.In the EU it&#039;s worse-Commissioner Kinnock shot the auditor!! 

Your banking analogy is entirely eroneous-the asset write downs post sub-prime are nothing to do with accurate accounting for transactions -they are to do with judgements about the book value of assets. 
Soc Gen knew precisely how much they had lost-how they lost it is a function of their management systems-not their accounting systems.


Re Wind technology etc-you&#039;ve lost me...your second para certainly takes a leap of logic-Wind Farms in Scottish areas of ecological importance won&#039;t save a single Columbian coal miner-and so far as CO2 saving is concerned this is what
Dieter Helm, professor of energy policy at Oxford University, says-
&quot; it costs consumers up to £510 for each tonne of CO2 emissions avoided through wind energy. The level of subsidy for onshore wind farms is very high and it distorts the market, making it more attractive to invest there than in other technologies ” . 

Reference your plea for a strategic approach-yes absolutely. It&#039;s what RSPB has been urging on Scotland&#039;s authorities for some time-If you made a start by banning any proposals for SPAs SSSIs RAMSAR sites etc  it would surely save a lot of wasted time &amp; money.The conservation criteria are already built into these protective designations.

Anyway I&#039;m glad we are in agreement that the dash for windfarm subsidies in Scotland is out of control.And I agree with you that calm reflection and strategic thinking is required.Of course the State has a role to play-but the RO system as currently set up has been a disaster for environmentally sensitive places whilst achieving practically nothing in energy security or emission mitigation.

Personally-with some reservations-I think Carbon Cap &amp; Trade is a way to drive the market in the right direction-provided ETS starts to auction permits &amp; stop giving them away.

Colin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter:-</p>
<p>&#8220;By and large companies the size of governments use the same kinds rules and the same kinds of accountants, and they make the same kinds of errors. &#8221;</p>
<p>Absolute nonsense. Companies use double-entry book-keeping and abide by International Accounting Standards( except the Enrons with crap Auditors of course)-government departments don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>One might observe that the authors of Enron style abuse end up in goal-their counterparts in government don&#8217;t.In the EU it&#8217;s worse-Commissioner Kinnock shot the auditor!! </p>
<p>Your banking analogy is entirely eroneous-the asset write downs post sub-prime are nothing to do with accurate accounting for transactions -they are to do with judgements about the book value of assets.<br />
Soc Gen knew precisely how much they had lost-how they lost it is a function of their management systems-not their accounting systems.</p>
<p>Re Wind technology etc-you&#8217;ve lost me&#8230;your second para certainly takes a leap of logic-Wind Farms in Scottish areas of ecological importance won&#8217;t save a single Columbian coal miner-and so far as CO2 saving is concerned this is what<br />
Dieter Helm, professor of energy policy at Oxford University, says-<br />
&#8221; it costs consumers up to £510 for each tonne of CO2 emissions avoided through wind energy. The level of subsidy for onshore wind farms is very high and it distorts the market, making it more attractive to invest there than in other technologies ” . </p>
<p>Reference your plea for a strategic approach-yes absolutely. It&#8217;s what RSPB has been urging on Scotland&#8217;s authorities for some time-If you made a start by banning any proposals for SPAs SSSIs RAMSAR sites etc  it would surely save a lot of wasted time &amp; money.The conservation criteria are already built into these protective designations.</p>
<p>Anyway I&#8217;m glad we are in agreement that the dash for windfarm subsidies in Scotland is out of control.And I agree with you that calm reflection and strategic thinking is required.Of course the State has a role to play-but the RO system as currently set up has been a disaster for environmentally sensitive places whilst achieving practically nothing in energy security or emission mitigation.</p>
<p>Personally-with some reservations-I think Carbon Cap &amp; Trade is a way to drive the market in the right direction-provided ETS starts to auction permits &amp; stop giving them away.</p>
<p>Colin</p>
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		<title>By: Cllr Peter Cairns (SNP)</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104/comment-page-1#comment-331927</link>
		<dc:creator>Cllr Peter Cairns (SNP)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 23:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104#comment-331927</guid>
		<description>Colin,

No it is the market. The wholesale price without ROC is just a different market, one that doesn&#039;t ask the polluter to pay. 

If you don&#039;t have a problem with CO2 emissions, or for that matter coal dug by Colombian kids in slave conditions then fine, but a lot of people do. 

Nuclear makes a lot more commercial sense in &quot;the Market&quot; if you keep the £75bn clean up costs off the balance sheet, but they shouldn&#039;t be. 

Whether it be land fill tax, R&amp;D credits or corporation tax, government actions both create and influence markets. 

People who don&#039;t like it complain about the dead hand of the state, but they really scream when they wake up to find there pensions isn&#039;t there anymore. Then it&#039;s where were the regulators? How could the government let this happen?...

As to not accounting for every penny, you are aware of the fact that at this moment in time there probably isn&#039;t a bank in the western world that can give an accurate figure for their exposure to the sub prime collapse. 

Hell Frances second largest bank managed to let someone gamble 50bn Euros and lose 4bn of it.

Anyone who thinks that large companies accounts are any better than Governments hasn&#039;t looked at the likes of Enron, Northern rock or indeed the millions and years spend trying to prove complex financial fraud cases.

By and large companies the size of governments use the same kinds rules and the same kinds of accountants, and they make the same kinds of errors. 

That&#039;s hardly rocket science, just hard to believe for the people who see the world in terms of &quot;The nasty big bad government spends all my money&quot;.

Peter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colin,</p>
<p>No it is the market. The wholesale price without ROC is just a different market, one that doesn&#8217;t ask the polluter to pay. </p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t have a problem with CO2 emissions, or for that matter coal dug by Colombian kids in slave conditions then fine, but a lot of people do. </p>
<p>Nuclear makes a lot more commercial sense in &#8220;the Market&#8221; if you keep the £75bn clean up costs off the balance sheet, but they shouldn&#8217;t be. </p>
<p>Whether it be land fill tax, R&amp;D credits or corporation tax, government actions both create and influence markets. </p>
<p>People who don&#8217;t like it complain about the dead hand of the state, but they really scream when they wake up to find there pensions isn&#8217;t there anymore. Then it&#8217;s where were the regulators? How could the government let this happen?&#8230;</p>
<p>As to not accounting for every penny, you are aware of the fact that at this moment in time there probably isn&#8217;t a bank in the western world that can give an accurate figure for their exposure to the sub prime collapse. </p>
<p>Hell Frances second largest bank managed to let someone gamble 50bn Euros and lose 4bn of it.</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks that large companies accounts are any better than Governments hasn&#8217;t looked at the likes of Enron, Northern rock or indeed the millions and years spend trying to prove complex financial fraud cases.</p>
<p>By and large companies the size of governments use the same kinds rules and the same kinds of accountants, and they make the same kinds of errors. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s hardly rocket science, just hard to believe for the people who see the world in terms of &#8220;The nasty big bad government spends all my money&#8221;.</p>
<p>Peter.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104/comment-page-1#comment-331892</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1104#comment-331892</guid>
		<description>Peter-

I wasn&#039;t talking about expectations or forecasts-Companies get those wrong quite often-and politicians have made a profession out of getting them wrong-I was talking about accuracy of recording-ACCOUNTABILITY.

The concept that the Government ( you sensibly did not mention EU) &quot;account for every penny&quot; is risible.
This is but one example :-

 &quot;I cannot form an opinion on the truth and fairness of the Home Office financial statements for 2004-05&quot;
 Sir John Bourn, the Comptroller and Auditor General.


DEFRA, The Treasury etc etc have all had accounting black holes exposed. Any listed company with such an audit qualification would find the heavy mob from the LSE on their doorstep-and as for the EU-their accounts are qualified by their auditors every year-thanks to Commissioner Kinnocks best efforts .  

As for Barvas Moor:-

&quot;We’ve got a sort of “Whirl for Wind” version of the “Dash for Gas” with developers trying to put up the biggest number and size of turbine on the windiest cheapest land.&quot;

The penny drops at last!-tell me about it!!! 

It&#039;s not &quot;the market&quot; that&#039;s the problem -If their income was restricted to the wholesale market price of electricity none of them would be viable/built. Its the bloody stupid level of the ROC subsidy. ( Read House of Lords Select Committee Report on the scale of unneccessary &amp; excessive subsidy).
BWEA have just published a report crowing about the profitability of the average 2MW turbine- £500,000 pa-for   one turbine--of which £300k pa is subsidy-Capex payback in four years-21 years cash flow to count-yippee.
Which Scottish Politician was it who re-designated the Highlands &amp; Islands from a Tourist attraction to a &quot;Wind Resource&quot; ? 

God protect us from these people!

Colin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter-</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t talking about expectations or forecasts-Companies get those wrong quite often-and politicians have made a profession out of getting them wrong-I was talking about accuracy of recording-ACCOUNTABILITY.</p>
<p>The concept that the Government ( you sensibly did not mention EU) &#8220;account for every penny&#8221; is risible.<br />
This is but one example :-</p>
<p> &#8220;I cannot form an opinion on the truth and fairness of the Home Office financial statements for 2004-05&#8243;<br />
 Sir John Bourn, the Comptroller and Auditor General.</p>
<p>DEFRA, The Treasury etc etc have all had accounting black holes exposed. Any listed company with such an audit qualification would find the heavy mob from the LSE on their doorstep-and as for the EU-their accounts are qualified by their auditors every year-thanks to Commissioner Kinnocks best efforts .  </p>
<p>As for Barvas Moor:-</p>
<p>&#8220;We’ve got a sort of “Whirl for Wind” version of the “Dash for Gas” with developers trying to put up the biggest number and size of turbine on the windiest cheapest land.&#8221;</p>
<p>The penny drops at last!-tell me about it!!! </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not &#8220;the market&#8221; that&#8217;s the problem -If their income was restricted to the wholesale market price of electricity none of them would be viable/built. Its the bloody stupid level of the ROC subsidy. ( Read House of Lords Select Committee Report on the scale of unneccessary &amp; excessive subsidy).<br />
BWEA have just published a report crowing about the profitability of the average 2MW turbine- £500,000 pa-for   one turbine&#8211;of which £300k pa is subsidy-Capex payback in four years-21 years cash flow to count-yippee.<br />
Which Scottish Politician was it who re-designated the Highlands &amp; Islands from a Tourist attraction to a &#8220;Wind Resource&#8221; ? </p>
<p>God protect us from these people!</p>
<p>Colin</p>
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