Cheers

If you want to understand how EU law has impacted UK it’s very easy to do the research on-line.You just have to be interested enough.

You seem quite content with the status quo which is fine.-I am not.

We are on different sides of a divide it seems.
It’s been fun though
atb
Colin

If the EU robs us of our “democratic” rights, then so does our own “undemocratic” system. Who elected the Crown? If we had to start again from scratch we’d probably be able to devise a more “democratic” system than we have – in the EU as well (I don’t disagree as much as you might think!) , since the driving force behind its original establishment was the proximity of the last World War.

It would be great to couch debate in terms of facts and figures (what laws exactly, and how do they affect life here?) , but there’s been precious little of those here, and I’m sure that’s the main reason people don’t care about Europe. “600 laws have been passed since May” doesn’t mean anything near as much as, say, “ONE law has been passed which is going to cost you your job”.

I just want to respond to one of your points-or else this will go on too far-it probably has already!

“UK, laws are not subsidiary to thse of the EU,”

It has been ruled several times by the European Court of Justice that EU law is superior to national laws, and even Member States’ constitutions. Where a conflict arises between EU law and the law of a Member State, EU law takes precedence, so that the law of a Member State must be disapplied. This doctrine, known as the supremacy of EU law, emerged from the European Court of Justice in Costa v. ENEL

The Commission has sole power to initiate this legislation -and it pours out in bucket loads.
Since end May this year over 600 new laws have appeared .

“FJ Calls for New Protection for Whistleblowers Within European Union

30/09/2004″

2004?? I need more recent examples of how the EU damages my life. How about an article from some time this year (or henceforward – I’m sure Anthony will indulge us awhile at the bottom of a thread!

I disagree that the debate has been low-grade. It has been almost entirely about the process of government, at the expense of discussion of policies , which no doubt in my mind explains the public’s lack of interest in the EU (pace Anthony!!), but there was an interesting turn at 7.51pm from Colin :

1 “Why cannot trade be conducted – as it is with so many other nation states – without economic union?

2 Why do the economies of Europe have to converges simply in order to facilitate a common currency & interest rate policy?

3 Why does the law of the country in which I live & vote have to be subsidiary to the law of the EU which is not a country & where I do not vote?”

These are very good questions (I corrected the typos)and added numbers for convenience.as to the answers, my personal take is :

1 Economic Union is not an issue for us – won’t happen.

2 The differnet economies WOULD have to converge to facilitate a single currency and interest rate policy. Again, not an issue for us, as we do not envisage a single currency, a convergence of economies, or a single interest rate policy.

3 Assumiong you live in the UK, your laws are not subsidiary to thse of the EU, at least until the “opt-outs” are removed, at which point I’ll gladly join the queue to exit.

Colin at 1.36 pm

“He/she will have a high degree of certainty that it will be implemented by the majority party”

When was the last time a majority party decided anything in this country?

The last time a majority view held sway was when the poll tax riots 500 yards from the palace led to its abandonment, but even then the taxpayer was punished by an increase in VAT from 15% to 17.5%, in order to “pay for the transition”.

Collin – your departure from this debate presumably means we can stay off China now!

Nope-I’ll be voting Conservative in all probability.

Not at all a wasted vote!!!

“Thanks for your invitation, but the party I vote for will have very distinct policies & values, which are unlikely to be legislated for in Scotland at present!”

That will be UKIP I presume.

Odd that you talk about being able to have democartic control through your vote when you seem intent on wasting it.

Peter.