There are two new voting intention polls out today – YouGov for the Times, and Ipsos MORI’s monthly political monitor in the Evening Standard.

Ipsos MORI‘s topline figures are CON 38%(nc), LAB 38%(nc), LDEM 10%(+1), UKIP 4%(nc). Fieldwork was between Friday and Tuesday (1st-5th), and changes are from MORI’s last poll back in December.

YouGov‘s topline figures are CON 41%(+2), LAB 34%(nc), LDEM 10(-1), UKIP 4%(-2). Fieldwork was on Sunday and Monday, and changes are from YouGov’s last poll in mid-January.

This does not, of course, offer us much insight on what is really happening. At the weekend a lot of attention was paid to a poll by Opinium showing a big shift towards the Conservatives and a 7 point Tory lead. Earlier in the week Opinium also published a previously unreleased poll conducted for the People’s Vote campaign the previous week, which showed a four point Tory lead, suggesting their Observer poll was more than just an isolated blip. Today’s polls do little to clatify matters – MORI show no change, with the parties still neck-and-neck. YouGov show the Tories moving to a seven point lead, the same as Opinium, but YouGov has typically shown larger Tory leads anyway of late so it doesn’t reflect quite as large a movement.

I know people look at polls hoping to find some firm evidence – the reality is they cannot always provide it. They are volatile, they have margins of error. Only time will tell for sure whether Labour’s support is dropping as events force them to take a clearer stance on Brexit, or whether we’re just reading too much into noise. As ever, the wisest advice I can give is to resist the natural temptation to assume that the polls you’d like to be accurate are the ones that are correct, and that the others must be wrong.

Ipsos MORI tables are up here, YouGov tables are here.


541 Responses to “Latest YouGov and Ipsos MORI voting intention polls”

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  1. Peterw

    As TO and Danny point ed it out, it is an oxymoron, having said that, I prefer TO’s verbalisation.

    The sentence was originally for the 2017 election (the great fudge), that is, placating various factions of the Labour Party and various segments of the electorate. The sentence otherwise doesn’t make sense.

    Brexit is not in the interest of the nation – it is not a perception, it is, well a fact, but it is also an interest of a sizeable minority (back to the point of the segmentation of the populous – there is no choice that equally satisfied all segments, but there is a choice that can satisfy the interests (albeit to a different degree) of a majority. The option is therefore Remain.
    However, there was a referendum on which Leave had a sizeable majority. This is a classic textbook example: the two premises are in antagonism (not simply in contradiction), thus compromise is called for (May or Corbyn) – but this compromise is the same as the one between the fire and the fire engine. That is, a lose-lose situation.

    Danny, if I understood it well, took side with one side of the antagonism. Some took side with the other. Both are wrong, as both sides are valid and true, and actually there is no hierarchy between them (Labour doesn’t represent the national interest more than my neighbour).

    One can go down on the road of deciding which side of the antagonism is stronger (this is the second vote in a legitimizing form). One can go down on the path saying that well, the whole thing is not rational, so we are following our instinct or out political interest.

    The question is if there is a different sentence to replace the quotes one: I’m not going into it, but basically revisiting Cameron’s quest but now from the position of alliances, coalitions, and economic power.

  2. N

  3. Wolf

    Mmmm

  4. @alec

    It is also being reported that S Korea is saying that in any future deal with it the UK will only be able to exclude EU manufactured components from Rules of Origin requirements if it can exclude Chinese manufactured components, a tactic to restrict UK car exports to S Korea.

  5. Interesting thread of thoughts from Peter Foster of the Telegraph showing why May’s tactics are becoming increasingly risky and losing more autonomy in final decisions kver the next few weeks:

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1093925236989480962?s=19

  6. @ Hireton

    Thanks for the Irish poll information, it makes interesting reading compared to similar UK figures for approval of the government’s policy and negotiating tactics. What would TM give for backing that looked like that? It makes clear what most of us already knew – the obvious answer to the question of why the Irish don’t throw in their lot with UK is just that they simply don’t want to. Why anyone even thinks of asking is beyond me.

    When people here say that we are prepared to take a hit to get the Brexit we want (well, that 52% of the population wanted at best), they perhaps forget that others are also prepared to take a hit in order to get what they want, which in the Irish case is to stay in the EU and not get tangled up with the UK. In fact it seems that around 70-80% of the Irish feel like that, which is a lot more impressive than our government could claim at any point in the last 2-3 years for its objectives.

    It reminds of Tusk’s now legendary comment. It could be interpreted in many ways, but I think it perhaps is the first sign that the EU is now prepared to say: “OK, no deal is not good for us, but since we can’t reach a common agreed position, it’s a hit we’re prepared to take”.

    Whether any of this bravado from UK, Irish or the EU will do anyone any good is another matter. Historians are going to love this era.

  7. Trigguy @ Hireton

    While I only skimmed the tables from the Sky Irish poll, my strong impression was that there was also much greater consensus on these questions across all the crossbreaks, than one might expect to see in a GB or Scottish poll.

    Perhaps the ardent Brit Nats should note that “the Dunkirk spirit” (or any other fancied unique attribute they ascribe to their nation) is actually quite a normal phenomenon.

  8. Trigguy

    “Historians are going to love this era.”

    Well, this one doesn’t! :-)

  9. ON

    “Perhaps the ardent Brit Nats should note that “the Dunkirk spirit” (or any other fancied unique attribute they ascribe to their nation) is actually quite a normal phenomenon.”

    Maybe so. But it was us wot did it first….

  10. R&D

    “But it was us wot did it first….”

    Nonsense, ladies!

    Over millenniums, the armies of many countries have been ignominiously defeated and run away.

  11. @Hireton – the worst thing about the news from the trade discussions is that this really did seem to be the last remaining economic argument that Leave had.

    Very early on they seemed to pivot away from the ‘low tax, deregulate’ argument, as this was so unpopular in polling terms, and more latterly the government has been promising to maintain close alignment with EU standards in pretty much all areas.

    Getting good trade deals was the one area that justified everything from leaving the CU and all the Irish border issues this would bring, to no deal, yet now we are finding out that the ‘stand still’ trade deals we need just to maintain our position will be worse than we have got through the EU, and that some of these restrictions will mean we will be locked into worse trade terms with new trade deals with other countries, compared to what the EU will eventually get.

    There was one prolific poster on here who confidently predicted that the DIT’s photocopier would be very busy in the run up to March 29th, while you and others quietly pointed out that this wouldn’t be the case. It’s now clear who was right and who was wrong, but the sadness is that this really isn’t about what judgements history makes on UKPR debates, but the future wellbeing of our country.

    Too many people still believe this stuff, even as it is being rammed down their throats that all their assumptions were entirely wrong.

  12. Of some relevance with regards the Irish polling – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47170711

    I think it was around six months ago or so I posted my thoughts on the ultimate solution to the backstop, which would be a united Ireland. Given the demographic developments in NI, and the greater social freedoms and decline of the Catholic influence in Eire, it’s becoming more apparent that a united Ireland is coming, but I think that there really can be very little argument that a no deal Brexit will greatly increase the likelihood of this happening sooner rather than later.

    It now appears that HMG have awoken to this ‘risk’, and I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if a united Ireland leads to Scottish independence. Constructing a viable Scottish economy within the EU becomes much easier if NI is part of the picture.

    Who knows – maybe it’s worth a punt on Corbyn as PM uniting Ireland?

  13. @OldNat

    “R&D

    “But it was us wot did it first….”

    Nonsense, ladies!

    Over millenniums, the armies of many countries have been ignominiously defeated and run away.”

    It was a strategic withdrawal. Many armies have strategically withdrawn their forces to re-appraise the best way forward. Discretion is often the better part of valour.

  14. If this, from the DT is true, I think this also makes a no deal hard Brexit less likely – “‘Thousands of Tory party members’ to defect to Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party as it gets official approval”.

    If the Tory party membership sheds the hard line Brexiters it won back after the referendum, then there is much less to stop the leadership going for the conservative voters, who were reported to be far less enamoured by a no deal exit (against by 55% in one poll recently I seem to recall).

  15. @ ON

    “the Dunkirk spirit”

    I’ve sometimes wondered if the Dunkirk spirit should be reused to refer to the inate ability of us Brits to misspell and/or mispronounce the names of foreign towns and cities, and do so with no shame whatsoever.

  16. RAF

    Give it any label you want – but the Brits still didn’t do it first!

  17. ON

    “Nonsense, ladies!

    Over millenniums, the armies of many countries have been ignominiously defeated and run away.”

    Yes, but not in dinghies from Dunkirk [which the French couldn’t even spell properly.]

  18. Nigel Farage missed a trick. If he was going to back a new party it should have been called the Brexit Means Brexit party. The Brexit Party is too vanilla.

  19. Trigguy

    “the inate ability of us Brits to misspell and/or mispronounce the names of foreign towns and cities”

    Even that example is British exceptionalism, suggesting some unique (perhaps genetic?) trait.

    Lithuanians call Edinburgh “Edinburgas”, and the Italians refer to London as “Londra”.

    I hadn’t expected you to join the ranks of the exceptionalists!

  20. @Alec Very early on they seemed to pivot away from the ‘low tax, deregulate’ argument ….Getting good trade deals was the one area that justified everything from leaving the CU and all the Irish border issues this would bring, to no deal, yet now we are finding out that the ‘stand still’ trade deals we need just to maintain our position will be worse than we have got through the EU,

    Quite so, To be fair, however, leave has always been stronger on emotion than argument, In addition I suspect that the only trade deal in which the leaders (not the foot soldiers) of Brexit are really interested is one with the United states and that could well bring deregulation etc with it,

  21. @ Charles

    Trade deals are always swings and roundabouts, what’s being reported just now really depends on the author’s personal view of Brexit. I’m taking anything I hear either way with a very large pinch of salt, there’s a distinct pong of BS in the air.

  22. Bantams

    “Trade deals are always swings and roundabouts”.

    In one sense, that is obviously true. At one extreme you have the trade agreement in the 1850s where China agreed to buy British opium, in return for Britain ceasing to bombard its ports. The Chinese gained a little but lost a lot. Britain gained a lot and lost (well, actually) nothing.

    Then, there’s the agreement between the former government of Mauretania and the owners of the Irish giant trawler, the Atlantic Dawn, where the shipowner and members of the Mauretanian government gained a lot of cash, and the Mauretanian fishermen lost massively.

    There are always gains and losses, and the powerful get the gains, while the powerless suffer the losses.

    Then there are the mutually satisfactory agreements between governments like the UK FTAs with Chile and the Faroes which will come into effect when/if the UK leaves the EU.

    The UK buys Chilean wine, fruit and nuts, while the UK sells oil and prestige food & drink products to Chile.

    The Faroes sells cod and haddock to the UK, while the UK sells manufactured goods of lesser value to the Faroes.

    Much more difficult will be deals where both countries are in competition to sell similar products to each other. Agreements can always be reached, in due course, but the power imbalance will apply. The country most desperate for a deal will need to give ground to the other.

    The FTA optimists believe that the UK is so important that others will give way to its demands. Others suggest that such an attitude displays an inflated sense of self-importance.

  23. Charles

    re an FTA with the USA

    Have you seen this in the Huffington Post?

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-lobbyists-brexit_uk_5c5b26c6e4b00187b5579f64?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter

    Now all 30 of these demands from US business may not make their way into the US negotiating position, though it might be unwise to make that assumption.

    Dependent on the UK Government’s political stance, some (or all) of these may be acceptable.

  24. While most would agree that the comments section of a BBC news article is no measure of any mood, it’s striking to see the top rated comments from this article:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47170711

    A heady mix of “Get lost NI” / “Good riddance NI”. Not one comment that actually says “Hope they stay, because NI is important for the UK”. One or two comments that argue against reunification, but more from a negative stance than any real positive feeling for NI or its people.

    I wonder if the good folk of NI are feeling the love?

    I must admit. It would give me a warm feeling to think that the Unionist parties and the Farage types brought about the break up of the UK, just to please one nation of four. It seems akin to family members leaving the house one by one, until one family member remains, still refusing to admit that they were the cause of it all.

  25. @TRIGGUY

    “I’ve sometimes wondered if the Dunkirk spirit should be reused to refer to the inate ability of us Brits to misspell and/or mispronounce the names of foreign towns and cities, and do so with no shame whatsoever.”

    It’s not limited to foreign towns and cities. See ‘Doric call centre’ on youtube. :D

  26. Leaving the EU is really going to be great.

    20h ago 11:22

    Donald Trump is being urged to play hardball with the UK when it negotiates a trade deal with the US after leaving the EU, Huffington Post reports.

    It says the US Department of Trade asked industry what the president should extract from post-Brexit Britain and the answers from lobbyists for big firms included:

    Changing how NHS chiefs buy drugs to suit big US pharmaceutical companies.
    Britain scrapping its safety-first approach to safety and food standards.
    Law changes that would allow foreign companies to sue the British state.
    Removing protections for traditional British products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/feb/08/second-referendum-necessary-if-no-brexit-agreement-says-john-mcdonnell-politics-live?page=with:block-5c5d64b2e4b042feedcb9b5b#block-5c5d64b2e4b042feedcb9b5b

  27. LASZLO

    I don’t for one minute disagree that the Labour manifesto was fudgy. They always are.

    Danny is perfectly at liberty to argue that the quoted sentence is open to his particular interpretation. Of course ToH’s arguments would require that the quoted sentence means only the hardest of hard Brexits would do, as only such a Brexit meets its first half. It is fudgy.

    But that’s not what Danny said. He said the manifesto stated something specific. And that was factually incorrect.

    He didn’t say “it states X and I take that to mean Y/ think is capable as being read as Y/ was understood by part of the electorate as meaning Y”. He said “it states Y”.

    The former is valid comment, and the latter is an untruth. There’s enough inaccuracy across the MSM and the rest of the internet as people just make stuff up to suit their agenda. It shouldn’t go unchallenged here.

  28. I see Seaborne Freight has had it’s contract terminated by the Government, they came to the conclusion it was not realistic for the company to be able to fulfil the contract.
    How did they work that one out, just because it had no ships, no crew and no routes. I can only think Chris Grayling is allowed to stay in the Government to make other ministers not look so bad

  29. EOTW

    “Her recent return to the limelight has provided equally startling quotes, with Blaiklock telling the Sun that “people feel treason has been committed” in the fight against Brexit …”

    Well both my wife an I have sympathy with that view.

  30. @Statgeek – “I wonder if the good folk of NI are feeling the love?”

    Your observations really don’t surprise me. I think it was 1985 when Thatcher caused a storm in the NI unionist community when she signed the Dublin agreement, which stated that the UK had no strategic interest in NI. Personally, I see this move by Thatcher as the real start of the peace process and the foundation stone for eventual unification. [Along with the creation of the single market and the Zimbabwe peace deal, it was one of the few genuinely good things she achieved, in my view].

    In the main, the British public don’t like NI. The hardline unionists are commonly seen as objectionable and treated with derision, and few people really care about standing up for the rights of people who think being British is about marching through your Catholic neighbours estates blowing whistles and banging a drum, knowing full well that this upsets them.

    Of course, this doesn’t apply to everyone, but I always felt that the IRA were simply misguided in the violence campaign. The UK populace would strongly resist walking away from NI under violent threat, but were always going to support unification if done peaceable and via democracy.

    Apart from the ERG, few like the DUP, and they better get their thinking hats on because if they push the country to a no deal Brexit, the country will push them to Dublin, and most of us will be smiling.

  31. Charles

    “Quite so, To be fair, however, leave has always been stronger on emotion than argument, In addition I suspect that the only trade deal in which the leaders (not the foot soldiers) of Brexit are really interested is one with the United states and that could well bring deregulation etc with it,”

    I want a great deal of deregulation, that is part of the problem of the EU it is over regulated.

    Speaking as a hard-line Brexiter member of the Tory Party, I think there is little chance of my or others defection. Many share my view that there is little to worry about in the long term from a No Deal (WTO) exit.

  32. @TOH

    EOTW
    “Her recent return to the limelight has provided equally startling quotes, with Blaiklock telling the Sun that “people feel treason has been committed” in the fight against Brexit …”

    Well both my wife an I have sympathy with that view.

    Do you not think the term treason is emotive and over the top?

    I think it’s the kind of language that throws petrol on a bonfire, and just stokes up tensions for no good purpose.

  33. @NEILJ

    It’s quite incredible really. But even more incredible that Tory voters just seem to shrug and accept this cluster**** of a government. If Corbyn had done this ferry thing the press would be having a field day!

  34. @LewBlew
    Leave Tory voters are happy we are leaving, even if it is a clusterbourach… they continue to support the Tories as they are sort of getting what they want despite the ongoing shambles, and where else can they go?

    Remain Tory voters (of whom I know quite a few) are appalled by the whole thing but viscerally terrified of a Corbyn goverenment

    2017 Remain Tories were the most loyal grouping in one of the recent surveys – that really struck me.

    It is dangerous to expand from personal experience I know, as we all live in our little bubbles, but I know quite a few 2017 Remain Tories who voted Lib Dem 1997 to 2010/2015 (based in Sutton, Guildford, Maidstone and like areas) and would do so again, but will stay Tory – however badly they perform – while they perceive a risk of a Corbyn-led government.

    I’m not saying it is logical, but it is certainly my regular experience…

  35. Other countries playing hardball on trade negotiations – totally as expected! No surprise.

    In this regard the UFT nutters are not helping. We have to rule out UFT WTO and make that very clear to rWorld (and EU!!)

    Take Japan, from their perspective. Their “play book” is

    1/ Use “soft” power to get UK to stay in CU with EU (Turkey deal would be good for Japan, bad for UK)

    2/ If it’s no deal then use “soft” power to push UK to UFT (again great for Japan, bad for UK)

    Until they know what we are doing they have reason to “blink” and instead will pursue the above 2 options – simples!

    Only clarity and avoidance of UFT WTO will bring them to the table to talk a symmetrical deal- and then the best table is already there CPTPP!

    FWIW, Our trade with Japan is quite small (about 1.5% of total trade), roughly equal (we net import a bit more goods, net export a bit more services) and in a WTO tariff regime most of the goods have low tariffs (ie very little agri-food trade, etc).

    Before the chrous of “but Fox said…” then well:

    a/ he’s a politician so treat everything said with pinch of salt
    b/ EU negotiations have been a disaster, we still don’t know what the future UK-EU trade relationship will be so that has obviously pushed back most other deals

    US is more complex, much larger trade but clearly more issues at play that simply trade. I’ve repeatedly said we should not be in a rush to sign a deal with Trump but join CPTPP and hope next US president also joins. Sadly due to the scale and nature of trade with US (and them being the only realistic option for agri-food macro substitution) the political pressure to sign a “bad” deal with Trump will be immense, I just hope we can kick that can long enough to deal with whoever comes after Trump.

  36. As for Farage starting back up, pretty old news from mid-Jan, but clearly that puts pressure on May not to “betray” Brexit or forget the manifesto promise to leave SM and CU.

    Several polling companies have asked hypothetical question about a new Leave party and although hypothetical questions need to be treated with a pinch of salt, clearly CON have more votes (and seats) to lose to a Leave party if they “betray” Brexit then they would lose to LDEM or a new Rejoin party if they leave with No WA and go WTO – again, simples ;)

  37. I can remember before all this so called over the top regulation came in, I’m not sure the finger I lost can remember those days though. Yes, the finger i lost because regulation was so poor you could be put in charge of machines that you hadn’t been trained in properly. Brilliant, lets go back to those days and mad cow disease etc.

  38. @ TOH – I will certainly be voting for ‘Brexit Party’ in the EP elections, in the unlikely event that happens.

    That will again be where to send the message to CON to take Leave seriously. MEPs a pointless bunch of rubber stampers but if we have to send some then make the the likes of Farage+co!

    From a tactical point of view I would have liked to see UKIP be on higher VI and still do. Those are CON votes that May is throwing away if she “betrays” Brexit so the bigger the number the less likely she is to “betray”

    I obviously don’t want a new RoC Leave party but showing that CON will lose power if they allow one to return is important – tactically!

    @ STATGEEK – plenty of polling on NI backs up the general view you point out.

    Conservative and Unionist Party can’t officially support break-up of UK, specifically after the Mayb0tch GE meant a DUP C+S pact, but polls show plenty of folks would be quite happy if UK broke up.

    The one and only silver lining of Corbyn PM would be a higher likelihood of that.

  39. The Other [email protected] “Her recent return to the limelight has provided equally startling quotes, with Blaiklock telling the Sun that “people feel treason has been committed” in the fight against Brexit …”

    Well both my wife an I have sympathy with that view.

    And your attitudes are, to me, downright poisonous. The more patriotic you become along those lines, the less you will have to be patriotic about in the long run.

  40. Ah, the trevs have clearly forgotten their halcyon days of expectation that the Brits would simply copy and paste toll over trade agreements which grateful foreigners would rush to sign. And they also now seem to think that trade deals with proportionately small trading partners are unimportant, gone are the glory days of Great Britain forgeing new trade deals unshackled from the EU.

  41. @ BFR – It is perfectly logical.

    Once we’ve left, then the Battle FOR Britain begins.

    Do you then want Corbyn or CON? – simples ;)

    If we have a GE before we leave then the bigger risk for CON is on the Leave side. If you look at 2015 to 2017 “flow” you’ll see CON lost a lot of Remain then (but gained net more Leave). Of course May b0tched it and didn’t gain enough of the Leave in the seats she was supposed to win but that is all water under the bridge now!

    I’ve posted this link many times:
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/22/how-did-2015-voters-cast-their-ballot-2017-general

    Both main parties are trying to split the other one at the moment. Brexit is a “proxy” war for a longer term goal. In that regard I hope LAB split of course but TBA!

  42. Other countries playing hardball on trade negotiations – totally as expected! No surprise…it will be to those who believed it was going to be easy and they had nothing to fear. I thought we we’re going to be better off?

  43. Back to all the unpleasantness, it seems.

    ‘Treason’ as applied to alternative visions of what is in the national interest as regards Brexit is of course a completely nonsensical notion.

    How Brexit happens, or indeed whether it should happen at all, is quite obviously a political judgement, and a personal choice. As even hard line Brexiters admit, the point of judgement as to whether Brexit has or hasn’t been a success is decades away, and so is a matter of belief only. Declaring one such belief uniquely represents the national interests and all others are treasonous simply makes the accusers look childish. If we wish to go down this route, it would be as appropriate to accuse hard Brexiters of treason – if that’s what you believe.

    Legally, it’s nonsense. The offence of treason only applies to actions taken against the sovereign or the sovereign’s consort, or killing specific post holders of the state. In England, there is also the treasonable offence of “adhering to the sovereign’s enemies, giving them aid and comfort, in the realm or elsewhere”, but good luck with getting a court case against remainers on that basis. There are some differences in Scot’s law, and a couple of extra acts that only apply to NI, but nothing that could apply to Brexit.

    There is also an offence of ‘treason felony’, which is technically a lesser offence, with a maximum life imprisonment, although with the abolition of the death penalty this is in practice the same as for high treason. Treason felony again seems to bear little relationship to the political debate over Brexit.

    Away from the law, Encyclopedia Britannica defines treason as “……the crime of betraying a nation or a sovereign by acts considered dangerous to security” while the Cambridge Dictionary defines it as “(the crime of) showing no loyalty to your country, especially by helping its enemies or trying to defeat its government: ”

    The OED gives three definitions, which include betraying ones country by trying to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government, a historical meaning of killing ones master or husband (known legally as ‘petty treason’, no defunct in law) or, more interesting for the Brexit debate “The action of betraying someone or something.”

    This latter non-legal definition could theoretically be taken to apply to Brexit, if there was a Brexit which could be betrayed. As Brexit was never defined – quite deliberately, by the leave campaigns – there can be no case made that anything has been betrayed. We are simply engaged in a political process to define what was meant by Brexit and whether we still wish to proceed to enact whatever emerges from this process that was started by a non-binding referendum.

    Indeed, obviously this cannot be termed ‘treason’ as we haven’t yet decided what it is that we are meant to be betraying. At worst, we would have to accept that leavers made promises that they were unable to fulfill,. or at least that were not in their powers to fulfill, and so if there are any accusations of betrayal, these would more logically be directed at those who promised what they couldn’t deliver. Even here though, that wouldn’t count as treason – stupidity perhaps, but not treason.

    Again, the use of the T word in the common parlance of some Brexiters and their supporters is simple demonstration of ignorance, of both fact and the English language. Overall, however, it’s a simple demonstration of blind arrogance – ‘only we know what is good for our country, and if you disagree, you are treasonous’.

    It’s a terrible indictment of those who use the term.

  44. @ TREVOR WARNE

    “Once we’ve left, then the Battle FOR Britain begins.

    Do you then want Corbyn or CON? – simples ;)”

    I really think Brexit will be the end of Corbyn, the guy doesn’t have the energy levels needed to lead Labour and I see both parties with new Leaders in 12-18 months.

  45. @LEWBLEW
    It’s quite incredible really. But even more incredible that Tory voters just seem to shrug and accept this cluster**** of a government. If Corbyn had done this ferry thing the press would be having a field day!

    Agree

  46. the other howard

    “Well both my wife an I have sympathy with that view.”

    Mrs Putin?

  47. NICKP

    I make a serious point and you act like a little child. Grow up and accept that many others have a totally different view of the World.

    I said I can sympathise with that view. I did not say it was necessarily my view. I probably would not go quite that far………… yet.

  48. TO

    We obviously have similar views of each other. No surprise to you I suspect.

  49. other howard

    “Grow up and accept that many others have a totally different view of the World.”

    A failure of your Russian sense of humour?

    The more you accuse others of being unpatriotic, the more convinced I am that you are a Construct.

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