Yes turning their guns on their own voters seemed bizarre but it seemed to have a greater impact on the families of retired Tory voters who didnt want to inherit a loss on their family home.

I cant imagine my gf would be in the least bit interested in a very british coup

‘Churchill was probably more right wing in belief than Theresa May.’

That’s the most ludicrous statement I’ve ever read

Compared to May, Churchill is Hard Left

If any of you seriously think that

“the powers that be will move heaven and earth to keep Corbyn out of No 10, following the script of A Very British Coup if it comes down to it”

then quite honestly, the possibility of a Corbyn victory is the least of your worries. What you are actually saying is that you regard UK democracy as a fiction, that we are only allowed to play with our toys for as long as we do what the autocrats want, and that they are prepared at any time to create a dictatorship if they so decide.

If you don’t see the problem with that, you need to stop and think a bit harder.

May is obviously a fascist in disguise!

“What you are actually saying is that you regard UK democracy as a fiction, that we are only allowed to play with our toys for as long as we do what the autocrats want, and that they are prepared at any time to create a dictatorship if they so decide.”

Jeez there’s a lot of hyperbole in there mate.

Why would keeping Jezza out of No 10 mean we turn into a dictatorship? Surely it would simply mean putting in an alternative Labour politician, as I made clear in my post.

I think it’s you who needs to think a bit harder if you think the security services won’t be alarmed about a hard-left CND republican with a 40 year history of opposing NATO and supporting terrorist insurgencies becoming Prime Minister

nobody who was born after 1950 has seen a hard left party so close to power, frankly. corbyn came into the house of commons in 1983 on a platform and manifesto that he still clearly believes in even now.

the only think he has had to compromise on since that time is nuclear weapons and even that he would probably give up, if he knew before the election how popular other parts of his programme appear to be.

Exactly. If he’s elected, Corbyn is going to be Britain’s left wing Trump, totally without modern precedent. He’ll hit the buffers with his own party quite early on.

I hope to never read this forum if I was the leader of the opposition

Let’s be fair – the manifesto was hardly Das Kapital. It was actually a pretty good compromise that most of the PLP could get behind.

Sure, Jeremy’s natural instincts are a fair step to the left of what was in the manifesto. But he wouldn’t be able to get those more radical ideas through parliament, even if he was elected on a thumping majority.

By that argument, I presume you would vote for Hitler if he stood on a moderate manifesto, safe in the knowledge that he wouldn’t be able to get his old extreme ideas through parliament? 🙂

All credit to the man. I would never have thought his stuff would be so resonant and rouse the enthusiasm of voters, but that’s what democracy is about. We tories can’t complain if he knows how to rouse his base and give them belief and motivation and we don’t. We have to raise our game.

Democracy is a competitive process, that’s why dud leaders have to go. Corbyn would surely have been expected to go if there had been the expected wipeout, so all credit to him for gaining seats for labour in a general election for the first time in 20 years.

He has shown that old fashioned campaigning still works

HH,

you’re right. there ‘s also the old story they used to say that mass membership was dead and activists didn’t matter. corbyn and momentum have overturned that particular myth.

PC – I’m not sure there’s any evidence of that though.

In fact Labour people were complaining to me only last week that most of the Momentum lot don’t ever turn up to leaflet or canvass. I realise they are a force on-line and like attending a protest or rally though.

Plus in both 2010 and 2015, Labour famously beat the Tories 3:1 in terms of activists on the ground and doors knocked.

In Derby North momentum had two campaign days on saturdays over three weeks. The first drew 50 people the second about 100. They had to do their briefing in the car park because not everyone could fit in Unite’s office.

“In fact Labour people were complaining to me only last week that most of the Momentum lot don’t ever turn up to leaflet or canvass.”

Maybe it’s better that way though. I’m sure the more mild-mannered folk do a better job on the doorstep than the “Tory scum!” brigade.

Sadly there has been a bit of that

Lancs
I’m afraid your betraying your own allegiances there, I’m ex Momentum so don’t think I have any love for them and prior to the campaign I’d have agreed with you but over the past few weeks they have really stepped up. Most of the new Lab MP’s (some of whom are definite Blairites) have openly thanked the campaign work Momentum did, the Momentum “Find my Marginal” and “Momentum Carpool” Apps where downloaded thousands of times and were incredibly useful, Liverpool Momentum even campaigned heavily for Alison McGovern in Wirral South (chair of Progress) and she has since begrudgingly thanked them for their work. Finally I was only speaking to Pepps on here a few weeks back about how local Momentum groups were campaigning in Crewe and Weaver Vale with little to no help from the national party, as it is we won both seats so I think it has to be said we probably owe our victories there to Momentum, I imagine the story was similar in most every seat Lab gained, HQ fighting a defensive campaign and leaving it to the (presumed deluded) Momentum campaigners to go after marginals.

On the debate about increased youth vote, some polling :
YouGov also gives figures for the turnout among younger voters, finding that about 58%

Ipsos Mori estimated that turnout for 18 to 24 year olds was 58% turnout would be a considerable increase on estimated 43% in GE 2015.

Yougov estimated that among 18- 29 yr olds about 63% for Labour and 22% for the Conservatives, having polled more than 50,000 people online.

The figure it gave in its poll after the 2015 election was that 36% of 18 to 29 year olds had voted Labour with 32% voting Conservative – if correct that is a huge swing among young voters.

Lord Ashcroft’s much smaller exit poll puts support for Labour among young people even higher, with 67% of 18 to 24 year olds voting Labour and 18% voting Conservative.

Huh.

58% turnout is really still not that high, considering it was reportedy 64% in the EUref (after an initial figure of 36% was debunked).

I am honestly surprised by that figure, I thought youth turnout would be in the 65-70 range.

H. Hemmelig, I respect you as (over a long period) one of the most interesting posters on here, but your post that I noted did in fact say ” following the script of A Very British Coup if it comes down to it”.

Key plot points include: “the aristocratic Sir Percy Browne, Head of MI5, whose ancestors “unto the Middle Ages” have exercised subtle power behind the scenes”, an attempt to blackmail the PM out of office using forged documents, and, on TV, in the closing credits, the very clear implication that a military coup has been launched against the elected government, because “the powers that be” (to quote you again) cannot accept a democratic outcome they don’t approve of.

In what way did my earlier comment therefore include hyperbole? I was quoting both you, and the TV drama you referred to. A military coup against an elected PM would indeed be a dictatorship.

If any of you think that’s a possible outcome, you do indeed think that democracy is a sham.

64% in the EU referendum was 64% of all registered voters.

These turnout estimates are turnout estimates of all people, rather than just registered voters. That is the difference, I think.

“I presume you would vote for Hitler if he stood on a moderate manifesto”

Isn’t there also an old internet meme that the first person to draw a parallel to Hitler is admitting that they have lost the argument?

If so then Trump’s opponents have been losing badly for a long time

‘Isn’t there also an old internet meme that the first person to draw a parallel to Hitler is admitting that they have lost the argument?’

Possibly – though if you’re taking life lessons from internet memes then you’ve probably lost more than just the argument..

It’s called Godwin’s Law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Labour increase by 19% in a council by-election on Gloucestershire:

Winterbourne (South Gloucestershire) result:
CON: 47.9% (+1.6)
LAB: 33.8% (+18.6)
LDEM: 18.3% (-3.8)

Conservative HOLD. No UKIP (as prev).